S1E01

Energy Transition of Austria so far..- TEB Podcast- S1E1

with Professor Rainan Har· TUB· 37m

TL;DR

Professor Rainan Har discusses Austria's energy transition, from early renewables and nuclear bans to Eastern European coal challenges and grid integration.

Synopsis

Professor Rainan Har traces Austria's energy transition from the 1980s, highlighting early renewable discussions, the impact of oil price fluctuations, and the definitive public rejection of nuclear power in 1978, solidified by a 1986 law. He details the evolution of the TU Wien's energy master's program and the shift in industry culture towards public engagement. The discussion extends to Central and Eastern Europe, addressing the complexities of coal phase-out due to cost and existing district heating infrastructure. Har emphasizes the critical role of robust transmission grids and interconnections in Europe, while also noting significant social resistance to new renewable and grid projects. He touches on the potential of AI in energy efficiency but cautions about the increasing electricity demand from data centers and the long lead times and high costs of new nuclear technologies like SMRs.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 8

1980s
Oil crisis period
60%
Freo hydropower vote
1985
Oil price drop year
1978
Austrian nuclear poll
1986
Chernobyl disaster year
2011
German 'Energiewende' term
400 MW
Typical SMR size
19 years
Flamanville construction time

Topics

10 tags

Early RenewablesHydropower PolicyNuclear BanEnergy EducationCoal Phase-outDistrict HeatingGrid InterconnectionSocial AcceptanceSMR DevelopmentAI in Energy

Stats

Duration: 37m
Words: 5.1k
Questions: 17

Timeline

11 chapters

Early Energy Career and Crises
Professor Har recounts starting his energy career in the 1980s amidst oil crises and early discussions about nascent renewable technologies like solar and wind, alongside established hydropower.
Hydropower Development and Public Resistance
Discussion on the history of hydropower in Austria, including public resistance that prevented a large Danube project, but also a 60% public vote in favor of another project in Freo in 1993.
Oil Price Drop Halts Renewable Interest
The 1985 oil price drop led to a significant decline in public and political interest in alternative power plants for decades, as cheap fossil fuels removed investment incentives.
Evolution of Energy Master's Program
The master's program initially focused on Central and Eastern Europe (Slovakia, Hungary, Austria) but later broadened its scope to "Renewable Energy Systems" due to wider interest and the importance of system integration.
Cultural Shift and Austrian Nuclear Ban
The Austrian energy industry underwent a cultural shift in the 1990s, influenced by a 1978 public vote against nuclear power and the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, leading to a permanent legal ban on nuclear.
Emergence of Energy Transition and Climate Change
The term "energy transition" (Energiewende in Germany, 2011) and the focus on carbon emissions and climate change emerged as key topics much later, around 2000-2005.
Eastern European Energy Matrix Challenges
Analysis of Eastern European countries like Poland, Czech Republic, and Romania, highlighting their reliance on cheap coal, existing district heating systems, and the presence of older nuclear power plants.
European Grid Infrastructure and Interconnections
Central Europe boasts a robust electricity infrastructure with high supply security and extensive transboundary transmission capacities, acting as a backup system across countries.
Social Resistance to Grid and Renewables
Significant social and political resistance to new transmission lines within countries like Germany and Austria, and even to wind power projects, poses a major barrier to energy transition.
AI in Energy and Data Center Demand
Discussion on the opportunities for AI and machine learning in optimizing energy systems (e.g., biomass CHP, forecasting) but also the concern about enormous electricity consumption by data centers.
Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) Status
SMRs are still largely theoretical, with only a few practical prototypes in Russia and China, facing challenges in establishing production lines, high lead times, and high costs, making them unlikely for climate neutrality goals.

Key insights

5 takeaways

01
Public opinion shaped Austrian energy
A 1978 public poll against nuclear power, followed by the Chernobyl disaster, led to a permanent legal ban on nuclear energy in Austria, demonstrating early public influence on energy policy.
02
Cheap fossil fuels hinder renewables
The 1985 oil price drop caused public and political interest in alternative power plants to "fully disappeared" for decades, illustrating how economic factors can stall energy transition.
03
Grid infrastructure faces social resistance
Despite the necessity for new transmission lines to integrate renewables, local resistance in Germany and Austria often prevents construction, highlighting a key political and social barrier.
04
Eastern Europe coal phase-out complex
Phasing out coal in countries like the Czech Republic is challenging due to its low cost and the prevalence of coal-fired district heating, requiring significant financial support for citizens.
05
Industry slow to adopt efficiency tech
Large industrial companies are reluctant to invest in energy efficiency or AI solutions if payback periods are not immediate, contrasting with households' willingness to invest in PV and batteries.

Pull quotes

6 quotes

So it was a time where there was a discussion should we go towards renewables which were not really developed at that time or should we stick to the old system of coal and nuclear based electricity system.
Professor Rainan Har
At that point the interest in alternative power plants as they were called at the time more or less fully disappeared.
Professor Rainan Har
Finally after Chernobyl in 1986, Austria said nuclear is dead for this country and we have since then a law which forbids the use of nuclear power.
Professor Rainan Har
Coal is pretty cheap. You do not need a lot of investments if you use coal. Okay, it's burning and it's dirty but it's cheap.
Professor Rainan Har
But the large industry companies they simply decide by terms of money and this is the reason why not much is changing.
Professor Rainan Har
Before you will construct a nuclear plant in any way in Austria every African country will have a nuclear plan.
Professor Rainan Har

Transcript743 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

Welcome to this first episode of the
Energy Bridge podcast. Today we have
a really important guest for us which is
the academic director of our master
program at TUB. Professor Rainan Har,
thank you for coming. He's very
known researcher. He has been more than
10 years in the energy sector seeing
the evolution of energy transition in
Europe. Professor, we would like to know
about your journey first and of
course how how you got up in the
energy industry, how you see evolving
over the years. I started working
in the field of energy in a time in the
1980s when there were several energy
crisis. We had the oil crisis two times.
We had high jumps in the oil prices in
the 80s and in the 1980s also the
emergence of renewable sites, renewable
plants was pretty much
dispersed. So in Spain they started with
some solar power plants. In France they
had some geothermal power plants. We
were discussing about wind. It was too
early at the be beginning of the 1980s
for wind energy but hydropower was
already used in broad
applications. So it was a time where
there was a discussion should we go
towards renewables which were not really
developed at that time or should we
stick to the old system of coal and
nuclear based electricity system. W were
there any resistance about what any
resistance for the hydro power plant in
Austria when it started? We had not
resistance when it started but we had
resistance regarding the last project
that has been put on the table. For
example, there was one project in Hinduk
close to the border of Slovakia. A large
hydrop power plant was planned at the
Denube and finally it was not
constructed because of the resistance.
But at the Denube 10 years later about
1993
there was a other project in Freo in
Vienna and finally it was set into
practice mainly because there was a
public vote and the public vote was 60%
in favor of the power. 60%. Okay, that's
good. You mentioned that you were
already talking about renewables in
those times in late 80s and early
'9s. So what kind of renewables apart
from hydro product that you were
discussing? No, we were discussing in
theory more or less wind power plants.
And there were some practical
examples as I said in Spain in Almaria
where they had the first solar tower
plant and with Helios and other
distributed collector systems. And I had
the chance to be there and to work there
for some time in the middle of the
1980s. And actually in about 1985 the
oil prices dropped and at that point the
interest in alternative power plants as
they were called at the time more or
less fully disappeared. So there was no
more public support and no other plants
were constructed I think for the next 30
to 40 years in these areas of solar
power. So before it was cheaper to make
it to generate electricity out of oil.
So there was no incentive to use your
own. Yeah. Right. this is one of
the major boundary conditions. If you
have cheap fossil energy there is no
incentive to invest in a little bit more
expensive renewable technologies for
example. Next topic that we want to
cover it's a we are coursing a master
degree with rob their classmates in this
renewable energy yes system master
degree and but we knew that at the
beginning it had another name which was
energy renewable energy in central
and eastern Europe. So we would like to
know what was your vision at the
beginning of the program to focus on
this particular region. What did you see
and how do you see it further from now
on? Actually in the beginning there were
cooperations between three countries
close to each other and these three
countries were Slovakia, Hungary and
Austria. So it was just the eastern part
of Austria who participated in this
and we made it more or less polym up
that is to say we had energy experts
from Slovakia we had some professors
from Hungary from
Mosarova and from Brook which is
situated in the region. They had a very
important role in bringing about this
course together with technical
university of Vienna. We are also
situated in this area.
This was the beginning but finally after
some years we recognized that the
interest in the course is going by far
beyond this region and after some time
you also see in a region let's say no
more very new projects we had in Austria
a lot of good developments but finally
for example in our neighbor countries
the interest was Not so high as in
Austria. Okay. Okay. And Vienna located
in the center of Europe like
strategically next to Eastern Europe
with what's happening there. But this
was by chance. So okay, that's part of
Yeah. And how far how long it was
still called the CE? I think it was
about the first seven eight years. Okay.
And then we said let's say renewable
energy for the whole world but we
finally recognized that it doesn't make
sense just to look at single
technologies.. So the idea is to
look at the system and this was the
reason why we had renamed the course
renewable energy systems and the
integration of the different types of
renewable energy sources into the
existing system is from my point of view
still today the most important aspect
and you have it in our own module in the
course in the module 7. We still have
a lot of integration with the central
and eastern Europe. We went to the
field trip to Hungary and we had a
lot of professor coming from like other
countries as well. and most of the
professors they have expertise in
Romania in Poland. we were so
lucky also to have a professor from
Iceland. Even Iceland. Yes. You
mentioned your work with the
government and how how you saw in the
80s and the '90s
working firstly in the renewable
industry. Do you see any changes in the
energy system and how when exactly you
see it evolving and the
catalyst of the renewable that it really
came and people started taking it more
seriously. what is for me the
most interesting aspect is a change in
the culture of the energy industry
because let's say until the 1990s in
Austria we had just energy companies who
intended to deliver electricity to
people without having any contact to
them or without accepting any feedback
or something like that. And in the 1990s
we had a slow but finally rather sudden
change in this attitude. Maybe
background in 1978 we had a public poll
in Austria regarding the use of nuclear
power and people voted against nuclear
power but the industry still thought
they might find a loophole
somewhere to introduce nuclear
nonetheless. And finally after Chernobyl
in 1986, Austria said nuclear is dead
for this country and we have since then
a law which forbids the use of nuclear
power. Okay. And in the meantime there
was some kind of public knowledge or
education about the energy transition to
at that time the word energy transition
did not exist. In Germany you have the
word energy vendor and it was created in
2011.
Okay. And now it's called energy
transition and energy transition is also
very strongly linked to the issue of
reducing the carbon emissions. Okay. And
carbon and climate change have not been
a topic I would say in the 1990s or in
the last century. It emerged maybe
2005 2000 with Kyoto but before this was
not on the table. Okay. So this is well
before it was all about like climate
change
or what was the term used before energy
transition. We also had different
boundary conditions. I don't know how it
was in Chile simply from the economic
growth or energy growth but in Europe we
had growth rates of energy demand of 3
four 5% per year. What what is currently
the growth rate of energy in India? It's
still about I think something like 4%
per year. I think it's it's about 7 7.
So it was steep going up and as I have
show showed you emissions are at least
high. So in Austria the grow is slowly
decline but it's it's not enough. At
that time it was just a fight. How do we
provide the electricity by means of new
alternative energy like solar or by old
energy like natural gas or coal? In
Austria was all energy proficient. I
mean I don't know if you would be able
to relate or not but I even in my my
childhood we never had 24-hour
electricity. in c certain part of
India you still don't have 24hour
electricity it's a recent phenomena but
but how do you see that in Austria
so because I'm trying to understand like
the citizen perspective that they take
it for granted or because it's always
been there right the 24hour electricity
yes and actually the young people do not
know anymore about the history so now
it's electricity yeah but it's the same
I in all countries.. You do not
know what happened 30 40 years ago.
True. Yeah, it's true. So, moving
forward a bit to know the landscape in
Eastern Europe. we know that there
are several countries who are depending
on coal. So how do you see the Eastern
Europe energy matrix their challenges
and opportunities in order to
decarbonize the energy matrix? Also just
adding to that question that having
the regional perspective we see Austria
is something somewhere
I would say still the advanced energy
system but Poland which is very coal
reliant or Romania where you also have
nuclear. So it's very very unique
challenges that these country bring. So
what do you think about it? I think
you have to differ between the nuclear
and the coal issue. Coal is pretty
cheap. You do not need a lot of
investments if you use coal. Okay, it's
burning and it's dirty but it's cheap.
So example, Czech Republic
say the government could say we face out
of coal but the people have to pay and
this is not possible. So the German way
is maybe a different one. They have said
we want to phase out coal by 2028 or
something like that. But in Czech
Republic the politicians do not have the
money to support people. And what would
you suggest some heat with coal and many
heat with district heat and district
heat is also produced from coal. What is
of interest is that in the let's say
former communist countries they have a
lot of district heating systems..
That is to say, the people do not
necessarily use coal directly to heat in
a single stove, but they have a huge
district heating network and this is an
infrastructure which has been built and
it exists. Okay. And what is in addition
of interest is for example Czech
Republic does a lot of research in
biomass. They I would say they do more
research in biomass and they are more
advanced with some technologies and we
in Austria are in some dimensions let's
say lucky because we have biomass use
since since I can remember and also in
the 1960s 1970s we started the so-called
sustainable use of biomass especially
also for heating and to some extent for
district heating.
So on the one hand it depends on which
sources are available and on the other
hand it is also something a question
of costs. I would not just say economics
but also of
costs and it's difficult to give some
general advices for example to Poland
because they do not have any other
source available. They could change to
natural gas from Russia but this is of
course dependency. Yeah.
And how do you see the renewable
resources in Poland for example solar
wind do you see we have identified in a
joint projects quite high resources for
wind also wind offshore in the north and
the solar resources are you can
say the same as in Austria when Germany
from the level of sunshine hours Poland
is not Portugal or Spain so they have
they have the same situation as we in
Austria and the PV plants alone will not
solve the Polish electricity problems in
any new report any do they have any
chance with hydrogen
if you're aware of any project there
but hydrogen is not the primary energy
hydrogen is an energy carrier and you
have to produce it from another source
but hydropower
depends on the let's say difference in
altitudes in at the tenube you have a
very high difference from one power
plant to the other many of them the same
river and if you look at the rivers in
Poland they have almost zero so it's
very very flat Poland flat and then you
have not the same opportunity to harvest
hydrop power that's why like we were
making the comparison between Austria
being a advanced system in compared to
these countries and Romania is also a
very unique case. do you have any
thought about the Romanian energy
system because I see a lot of projects
happening in Romania especially for
solar and wind. We have our
classmate Adina working with a
lot of renewable project there and
they're unique because they also have
nuclear. So yeah, what are your thoughts
on it? No, in the former
communist area there have built nuclear
power plants in all of these countries
in German Democratic Republic,
Bulgaria, Russia was always in the
forefront and these power plants today
exist. They are of generation two which
is let's say a moderate safe safety
level. They are all of the same type as
they have it in Ukraine and as it was in
general build. So the power plants exist
and new investments will
become will be very difficult where to
get the money
from as I said in Czech Republic they
think now about small modular reactors
which they made purchase from far if
this comes about. But from my point of
view, if you now start to construct the
nuclear power plants and we have
currently very high lead times, it will
be too late for the climate neutrality.
Yeah. And it is it has high cost. So I
think I don't know what is currently the
plan of the new nuclear investments in
Hungary because one plan 10 years ago
was to get some money from Russia.
Following up on that like do you think
there are some critical infrastructure
project that are happening in CE
which should be mentioned here that
you're aware of that are very critical
going forward in the energy system of
central and eastern Europe. I think what
is positive is they have a very good
electricity infrastructure system with
respect to the transmission grids,
distribution grids and this is similar
to Austria. So we have a very high let's
say supply security and a very low time
of blackouts or something like that of
under supply. We had it I think some
days ago for 45 minutes because there
was an accident with some mountains
where some parts broke. But this takes
45 minutes and afterwards the system is
perfect again. And in addition in
central Europe in Europe in general
almost we have very high transboundary
transmission capacity. So Austria, Czech
Republic have Germany and Poland have
high interconnection and this is also a
backup system to some extent. One of the
advantage of European system is that
you are interconnected. That's the one
of the challenges is to decarbonize
completely on the matrix that but you
really you think that the energy
system integrated enough in Europe. It
always depends on which region now which
power plants do you have available and
where is the demand. For example, in
former times in Germany they constructed
the transmission lines from the nuclear
power plants to the large cities and now
you have the electricity produced in the
North Sea from offshore wind but you do
not have the proper infrastructure up to
now. Yeah, some months ago we had here
in Europe a peak price because of the
this problem in the transmission. Yeah,
it was in December and in Germany
you have a lot of resistance against new
lines within the country and it's all
mainly a political issue. So if in
Bavaria the head of the government of
Bavaria would say we will construct a
lot of transmission lines now in
Bavaria. He would no longer be prime
minister. So he says no we do not want
it despite he knows it's necessary. And
this is something that is happening in
many areas also in Austria. Yeah. the
social pressure as well the kind of
opposition to this kind of project. We
have heard in Germany that some people
even is again the win. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean I would say we had some votes now
in Austria in Corinthia. It was not
let's say set high level but they were
also finally voting against wind power
in some specific areas. Yeah. Well, in
Chile there is a discussion right now
about solar power plant near to
cosmic observatories that they so
renewable energy is not the silver
bullet that everyone wants it but it's a
it's important to receive the social
feedback and approval right
they're more accepted but still they
have some issues and Professor, you
you mentioned a lot of the times like
where the money is going to come when
you're talking about the energy system
changes in Romania and Czech Republic
and to an extent what do you
think is lacking? You think the
investment infrastructure is lacking
that's why the energy transition is
getting difficult here or you see
some other challenges itself? I cannot
say it for every country and it is not
the same in every country. For example,
in Austria, we do not have a lack of
money. The money is available, but we
have the resistance at different parts
against let's say the high voltage lines
and medium voltage lines. The only
barrier, no barrier of money. And in
different other countries, it's always a
mixture also between the let's say
political aspect and the aspect of
investment. For the future, it's
expected that will we will need much
more investments in the lines and we
have experienced this year also the rate
increases for especially also the
households and the rate increases were
because of the increasing investments
and the stagnating or decreasing
electricity demand from the public. Now
addressing in the in terms of
knowledge transfer all the main
projects h are in central Europe and the
new projects are emerging in western
Europe. So how how do you see the
knowledge transfer between them? How
could be made? How do you see in the
future? You mean is the knowledge
transfer all over Europe or Yeah.
like in terms of if we see the
energy value chain, we see that the
energy transition in Scandinavia with
new technology is a bit more advanced
system compared to central and
eastern Europe and do you think the
knowledge transfer is happening properly
so that this system this energy
system can also catch up? we see
a lot of projects now happening in
Romania.
there's enough projects happening in
Austria but the knowledge transfer
and in terms of expertise or
professional and projects it's happening
at the rate that you will be
satisfied it could you could
always improve something and as you said
such countries like Sweden or Austria or
Denmark they also had some advantages
from the start you can say so we had a
lot of hydropower almost 70% or already
in the 1970s. Norway has
99.99% hydro power. Same with Sweden,
they have 50% hydro and 50% nuclear. But
in Sweden, you also have a lot of
biomass. So the Nordic countries have a
lot of biomass, much more for example
than Poland. So they have good starting
conditions and you this is something you
have to bear in mind. And one aspect
which is very important is in all
sectors to increase the energy
efficiency. That is to say to finally
use less energy to provide produce the
goods and other products and there is
something left for I would say for
Eastern Europe but it is also costly.
You need some investments and the
industry is the sector which is from my
point of view much the sector which is
much most reluctant with respect to such
investments. So households are investing
now into photovoltaide systems into
battery
storage and they do not ask when does it
pay back is it my backpack time one year
or but the large industry companies they
simply decide by terms of money and this
is the reason why not much is changing.
So I have been to a discussion this
week, a panel
discussion regarding artificial
intelligence and the use in the energy
sector for energy transition. And these
people from the young startups finally
said the companies are not at all
interested in this because it's too
expensive for them and they do not
really want to invest with or without
AI. Yeah. But now recently
international energy agency have
declared that from April they're going
to open a division
to research or or or see what is
happening or what opportunities are with
AI in energy sector. So do you see in
the future some kind of opportunities in
in this with this mix? I think
there would be many
opportunities. For example, my son is
working in a company which makes the
control systems for biomass combined
heat and power plants and they use
machine learning and artificial
intelligence. They take it out of the
data they have collected. They want to
do the best efficient operation modes.
And the same to some extent is happening
with respect to forecast of solar energy
with respect to forecast of demand
decentral and how to bring it best
together cost minimizing for example by
means of this machine learning
approaches. But on the other hand, we
have heard that the data centers will
consume enormous amounts of electricity.
And in the US, they have announced to
revive a nuclear power plant which has
been closed 40 years ago just to provide
the electricity for the data center.
Yeah. So at the end you will see what is
the net effect. Will it be less energy
consumption or will it be increasing?
What do you think like especially for
countries like Brazil, India and also
Germany has a really big data center and
most of the tech giants they are trying
to create the small modular reactor
as you mentioned and you think in terms
of in Europe so data center and
technology and AI it will consume a lot
of it will there will be more data
center required if Europe wants to have
the ability of AI and in terms of
acceptance for nuclear and also small
modular nuclear reactor. You think there
will be more acceptance for the smaller
one or because otherwise the big tech
giant they would like to create their
their data center somewhere they
where they don't have to be reliant on
someone else for the energy.
Google
this is what I meant before.
first you have to look at the situation
of the small modular reactors and
actually currently you do not have any
production line that does proceed the
small modular reactors and for example
Bill Gates in the United States had a
theoretical project where he made a
model and with the model they finally
worked out how such a modular reactor
line could look like. So they didn't
build anywhere. We have just two
practical projects right now as far as
I'm informed. Okay. Two are in Russia
and two are in China. In Russia they
have operate started the operation in
2022 but they have actually not really
put it fully on the grid. They have
capacity factors I think of
25% and the Chinese ones are prototypes
where they try to learn something and
the full idea of the small modular
reactors is that to construct the
largest part of the plant the parts in
the factory and then you just transport
these parts to the site and there you
fix it put it together. This is the
idea. And how big they are inside like
100 megawatt. The typical size now for
an SMI is 400 megawatt. 400 megawatt.
Yeah. In practice we have some of 100 to
200 and I
think Rolls-Royce UK has started to
provide also a prototype but this was
finally size was changed
continuously I think so you have to
learn a lot of how to do it especially
and how to set up this business model
this business model it also brings to
the nuclear dilemma on the on the bigger
side. we discussed a bit
earlier but the safety standards the
Soviet era nuclear facilities are still
running in Romania in Bulgaria as you
mentioned but you see any viability for
for pan Europe again in we saw a
couple of months ago Germany they pulled
out their last nuclear facility and I
think there could be a coming back
especially now that there's so much
of the industrial ization going on in
Germany and it can pick up in the other
countries as well. So energy security
and energy reliance is something that
everyone is looking forward to in Europe
and one of the abundance energy that you
can have it from nuclear but you think
it can make a comeback in especially in
Germany and Austria in Austria
never I talked I talked to guys from
the IAEA which is situated in Austria
and they said before you will construct
a nuclear plant in any way in Austria
every African country will have a
nuclear plan. And I also don't think
that Germany will very soon change its
mind.
But the simple reality is that in
Finland and in France, the last two
nuclear power plants in Western Europe
were constructed and they were both
let's say finished last year. Yeah. or
maybe France Flamma will be operating
fully starting in this year but Flamma
will take construction time of I think
19 years but Flamville was constructed
in the paradise of nuclear in France
you couldn't have better boundary
conditions as they had and so I think it
we are not experienced now to do it and
also bringing the external expertise
especially in the political situation
that it currently is not acceptable.
Yeah. Actually going to that topic in
the new technologies and innovation what
do you think is the role of research
and innovation in order to address
energy
transition. I think we have especially
to find solutions in the way how we
bring and fit the pieces together. One
very important aspect is also
flexibility. What are possible
flexibility or yeah
opportunities and you just do not have
one sector you have electricity sector
where you have to retain security of
supply in this system. There's a lot of
open research questions regarding the
what would be the modern solution for
grid lines today. We have I don't know
in Chile you have the same you have 50
years old networks.
Would you like to mention some some some
of the new project and the research and
the innovation that is going on if if
there's any new project that you would
like to mention and how's it coming
along. I think there are especially in
cities projects in the heating sector
where they go completely new ways..
So in the heating sector you have this
opportunity of the district heating
system, district cooling systems and you
have the opportunity to use the ambient
heat from the ground geothermal and you
have a lot of waste heat. Waste heat is
increasing every year not just from data
centers but also from other companies in
that heat. Yeah. and you could try to
optimally integrate this heat into the
systems. In addition, you have in future
maybe a completely different transport
system. So in the transport
system regardless whether we phase out
by 2035 from the fossil energy or not it
will look different in future and you
will not have the same streets and the
same connections in future. Maybe even
the autonomous driving will play a role.
I do not believe it but it will have
much more needs for this information
technologies. I see from my son if he
wants to drive somewhere he just goes to
his mobile phone and in 5 minutes he
knows there will be a vehicle somewhere
here close where which I can take. Yeah,
there are some videos in California or
other states with autonomous taxis. So
yeah, amazing. So we finish our first
episode. we invite you to be updated
in your social media and join us to
learn together about energy
transition in Europe. Try to understand
this huge process and challenge. Thank
you. Thank you professor and thank you
very much for giving your time and
it's been a pleasure of course.
Thank you for the invitation. Okay.
Thank you. You're around.

Energy Transition of Austria so far..- TEB Podcast- S1E1

Public opinion shaped Austrian energy

Cheap fossil fuels hinder renewables

Grid infrastructure faces social resistance

Eastern Europe coal phase-out complex

Industry slow to adopt efficiency tech