S1E13

Crossing the Bridge: Nicola Kofler on ImWind Acquisition & @WienEnergieGmbH 2040 Vision|TEB-S1E13

with Nicola Kofler· Wien Energie GmbH· 54m

TL;DR

Nicola Kofler details Wien Energie's 2040 decarbonization vision, leveraging renewables, geothermal, and hydrogen amidst policy challenges.

Synopsis

Nicola Kofler, from Wien Energie, discusses the company's ambitious 2040 vision to fully decarbonize Vienna's energy supply. This involves significant investment in renewable assets, including the acquisition of ImWind, expansion of geothermal heating, and development of hydrogen infrastructure. The strategy emphasizes system flexibility and digitalization to optimize existing infrastructure. Kofler also shares insights from her transition from oil and gas to renewables, highlighting transferable skills and the mindset shift required. She addresses challenges in Eastern European markets due to varied regulatory frameworks and property laws, and advocates for common EU policies to accelerate the energy transition.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 7

80%
Transferable O&G skills
3° per 100m
Continental Europe geothermal gradient
3,000-3,500 meters
Vienna geothermal reservoir depth
2040
Vienna decarbonization target
17 TWh
Vienna 2040 energy consumption
2.8 GW
Wien Energie 2040 electricity goal
2036
Austria hydrogen import target

Topics

8 tags

Energy TransitionGeothermal HeatHydrogen InfrastructureDigitalizationRenewable Project EconomicsPolicy & RegulationBrownfield DevelopmentGrid Modernization

Stats

Duration: 54m
Words: 7.6k
Questions: 34

Timeline

10 chapters

Welcome and Austrian Football
The hosts welcome Nicola Kofler and congratulate Austria on qualifying for the World Cup, sharing a brief anecdote.
Career Path from Geophysics to Renewables
Nicola describes her career journey from geophysics and subsurface imaging in oil and gas to her current role in renewables, driven by curiosity and a desire for positive climate impact.
Mindset Shift from O&G to Renewables
Nicola explains the transition from oil and gas to renewables, emphasizing that 80% of skills are transferable, but a fundamental mindset shift from linear extraction to flexible system thinking is crucial.
Role of Carbon Capture in O&G Decarbonization
Discussion on the necessity of Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) for decarbonizing oil and gas operations, noting geological storage opportunities in the North Sea and challenges in continental Europe.
Brownfield PV and Community Acceptance
Nicola highlights Wien Energie's successful brownfield PV project on a landfill, emphasizing its replicability and positive community perception due to land reuse.
Geothermal Potential and Risks in Urban Areas
Discussion on Vienna's favorable conditions for geothermal (geology, district heating network) versus higher-risk seismic areas, and the distinction between geothermal for heat vs. electricity.
Wien Energie's Approach to Energy Communities
Nicola details Wien Energie's engagement with energy communities, offering models for electricity purchase and reduced prices, and adhering to national regulations.
Strategic Asset Development and Digitalization
Nicola clarifies her role in strategic asset development, focusing on decarbonizing aging gas power plants and advocating for digitalization to optimize existing infrastructure before renewal.
Wien Energie's 2040 Decarbonization Vision
Nicola outlines Wien Energie's goal to achieve 100% decarbonized energy for Vienna by 2040, including the strategic acquisition of ImWind for wind assets and plans for geothermal and hydrogen.
Hydrogen Infrastructure and Policy Challenges
Discussion on hydrogen implementation, advocating for reusing existing pipeline corridors with retrofitting, and highlighting the need for common EU regulatory frameworks and tariffs to attract investment in Eastern Europe.

Key insights

6 takeaways

01
O&G Skills Transfer to Renewables
80% of skills from oil and gas, such as risk assessment, project management, and data analytics, are directly transferable to renewables, especially geothermal. The main barrier is a mindset shift from linear extraction to flexible system thinking.
02
Brownfield PV Accelerates Decarbonization
Utilizing brownfield sites like landfills for PV projects, as Wien Energie does with the "shlloka" project, offers a blueprint for accelerated decarbonization due to easier permitting and community acceptance.
03
Geothermal Viability Depends on Geology
Geothermal project success in urban areas like Vienna is highly dependent on favorable geology (e.g., Vienna Basin's low seismic risk, extensive subsurface data) and existing district heating networks. High seismic risk areas require more monitoring and maintenance.
04
Digitalization Precedes Grid Renewal
Prioritizing digitalization to connect assets and gather information allows for precise identification of urgent grid renewal needs, enabling a more strategic and efficient investment in infrastructure upgrades.
05
EU Grid Prioritization Favors Stability
The EU's shift from "first come, first served" to prioritizing grid connections based on stability and environmental friendliness is a positive development, offering clear standards and reducing pressure on grid development.
06
Austrian Electricity Law Hinders Investment
The proposed Austrian electrical law draft is seen as critical by developers and utilities, potentially making future investments in the energy transition significantly harder.

Pull quotes

4 quotes

I would say 80% is transferable skills anyway especially that's why I said renewables is not renewables when it comes to geothermal it's a nearly complete shift or direct usage of your acquired skills.
Nicola Kofler
And then in renewables is more it's more a system thinking what what is needed it's more about flexibility. so from linear you have to go to more multiscalable kind of thinking to make renewable successful you have to be you have to create flexible systems not decline curves which is needed when you are in oil and gas.
Nicola Kofler
I think that's something you could roll out all over CE especially when it comes to I don't know old mining areas we and so on and we also have in planned another project in Austria
Nicola Kofler
I think that the best approach would be to push digital digitalization first and then optimize old infrastructure or the old assets. So first go for digitalization connect the assets make a bit a better flexibility in your connections and then you go for if you're new infrastructure or renew the old one.
Nicola Kofler

Transcript1215 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

Welcome to a new episode here in the
energy bridge. We have the pleasure
today finally having Nicola after many
attempts.
yeah, so we are very happy another
classmate from the master. We could
start this episode congratulating
Austria because they got the ticket for
the football
Yeah, for the World Cup
>> in US., just funny fact, the last
time that Austria was in a in a football
world cup, it was in France in 98 and we
played Chile against Austria and we
tied one-on-one. It was a last minute
goal from Austria. Never forgot that.
Yeah, but congrats because now you are
in the World Cup. So, yeah, welcome
Nicola. Thank you for coming. Thank
you very much for the invitation.,
you see we are working hard. We use
every
last second to make it equal. I think
also yesterday we just did it in the
last couple of minutes.
>> Oh wow.
>> Equal. Yeah. but any anyway we
>> we got the entrance ticket and we
finalized the step into in the into
the World Cup. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Amazing. Congrats. It was a good
match.
It's before we get into anything else
like a I thought Austria played good in
football.
>> Yeah, if they're not under pressure,
they're always good. But under pressure
is different. Yeah. No, no, we are
a small country, .
>> So, we take our chances. Sometimes we
are succeeding. sometime sometimes
not. with this World Cup ticket I
think it's it's something very
special and we are very proud that we
managed it in the last minutes.
>> Yeah, that's why I wanted to make the
point because it's big deal for Austria.
So, congrats.
>> yeah, so maybe now that we are here,
we chat a bit before recording.
but we wanted to know from the beginning
because you are we call it like a
person who brides the oil and gas
sector with renewables now. So how do
you get into the energy sector from
being geoysicist to energy and now in
being energy how was the path
>> the path? The path is I'm a very
curious person. So one of the first
questions I think already in at the
time when I was a kid was how is it
happening or possible that the landscape
is like it is because I'm from the
countryside there are a lot of mountains
and so on. and I did a little bit of
I don't know reading and was
fascinated by this invisible forces
which make this happen meaning there is
heat flows hydro not hydro water
flows there is energy which makes this
entire earth shape as it is shaped and
the landscape as it is and I think based
on this making this invisible visible
I came into this science oriented
study geoysics
>> and actually also make with this the
entry into my career because in the
first part I went into subsurface
imaging. So the first couple of
years I spent on a global basis in
this imaging on this imaging site
where I could make it happen that this
as I said invisible is getting visible
and with this I think this experience
they made sooner or later the step
into exploration and into the oil
operating side. yeah and I think this
curiosity actually brought me then on
the final stage
into the renewable side
>> bringing
economic aspects, technical
aspects physical aspect to together
on a problem solving scale. Yeah.
And that's why I'm there where I'm there
at the moment.
>> And you studied at Mount Leubin.
>> Mount Leon. Yeah. But it's a mining
university in Montana University. That's
the it's a mining university. Yeah.
it's originally all about mining.
>>.
>> And geopysics is one of this measures
I would say which you could use in any
kind of mining applications and oil
and gas is also mining. Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, I always stay curious. I think
the curiosity is what makes me drive.
>> Okay, great. But you have had this
extended career in the oil and gas and
before moving into renewable. So how was
it the transition?
>> I think it's it's just a it's just a
matter of
of a of a mindset shift. It's a
decision. You should do it. It's an easy
shift because
>> renewables is not a renewables. so
the basis when it comes to risk
assessment project management
technical aspect data analytics and so
on it's the same on both sides so I
would say 80% is transferable skills
anyway especially that's why I said
renewables is not renewables when it
comes to geothermal it's a nearly
complete shift or direct usage of
your acquired skills. Anyway, it's the
same. It's making the subsurface
visible again the same as in oil and
gas. I think the big biggest difference
is the mindset shift.
>>.
>> Because oil and gas is very linear.
you have to focus on extraction. There
is one point where you can which this
point you have to define and then you
explore or extract the big volume of
valuable stuff or gas. and then in
renewables is more it's more a system
thinking what what is needed it's
more about flexibility. so from
linear you have to go to more
multiscalable kind of thinking
to make renewable successful you have to
be you have to create flexible systems
not decline curves which is needed
when you are in oil and gas. I think
that's the main thing. So if you have
your mind shift done, I think then it's
not a problem.
>>. And what was the driver of this
shift?
>> The curiosity.
>> Okay.
>> As I said at the beginning, I think it's
you do something. It's it's a
curiosity to see what's really possible
on the on the other on the good side.
It's not good or bad but on the
renewable side which brought me to the
studies and then and then seeing
seeing
experiencing the impact you can do
then also the environmental discussions
of course going in parallel to the
the current environmental situation
and yeah
>> okay but for the climate also
like the
>> it's It's exactly. So I have my family,
I have my kids. for me it's
worthwhile to invest
invest in on the on the on the on the
technical side where we can have a
positive impact on the climate situation
to make worthwhile environment to
earth also for the next generations I
would say.
>> Yeah, I will say that energy renewable
energy team is happy to have you in this
side. a great acquisition for the team.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
>> But also because energy it's still
energy and there's a big side of it
still goes with the oil and gas and you
have worked extensively there. So what
would you say your key contributions
were or key projects that you did in
your career
from
>> at the beginning it's it was all
about very classical approaches
take the best economically driven
approaches to get oil and gas from
locations where we didn't find them
before. So creating projects but on a
later stage of course digitalization
>>
de-risking the project via digital twins
I think that's maybe what I was
driving or was I was working in or
did an impact in before and then on the
on the very last stage also how to
transfer actually knowledge and skills
from from people into newer business
models.
So how to upskill and think and
create solutions to
use and reuse the extensive experience
in oil and gas for new business model
which are maybe upcoming in an oil and
gas and therefore also already having a
look into the renewable side. What can
we use and transfer into the
renewable side? which kind of business
model would make sense to decarbonize
also the oil and gas business because
also there of course is you can do a
lot to decarbonize
>> yeah to find strategic approaches in
this aspects.
>> Yeah. and from the from inside the
the sector from oil and gas sector the
carbon capture played a key role
it's is in the plans for the future the
CC or CCS
>> it's a it's a key role depends on the
country you're in but it has to have a
key key role because it helps us to
store the CO2 which we are normally so
in a in a very natural way getting out
when we are extracting oil and gas and
we have to store it somewhere so that
we can decarbonize also this kind of
business. Yes. it's a key role for
the future. It's a must. just has to
to find a solution on site so that
it's applicable all over the world
and all over the locations.
currently we in a quite lucky situation
in Europe because we do have
geological formations in the northern
seaside so like Norway off Norway UK
and so on where we have huge
reservoir which we can use to store the
CO2 there. Yeah.
>> But for continental Europe you have to
find different solutions. either you
invest in infrastructure to get the CO2
there offshore or you find local
solutions and yeah that's I think it's
one part the oil and gas business is
focusing on currently and will continue
focus on
>> in Austria it was banned right until
last year to store
>> is it open now I'm not quite sure since
I left the business yes it was banned
to
uncertainty and the corrosional effects
on the war bell on the pipes
and so on. Yeah. bore hole. yeah,
>> I think they have relaxed something but
I'm not sure like to what extent
>> you have to find also the right
geological deposit for usage and so on.
So I don't know. Yeah.
>> Yeah. just parenthesis because the
three of us went to China recently in
different trips but still and we
had a class in Warner University where
they said that they are exploring
like synthetic fuels for airplanes
>> and they are putting the or or setting
the factory to produce it next to
a coal fire plant or something
>> because they can capture the carbon and
they can utilize it just on site to
create synthetic fuels
>> and interesting thing they are following
the European goals to make their
aerospace u clean so they are working
hard in synthetic fields that's
interesting that they are setting the
the producing plants next to the
>> where is produced which makes sense
OM is doing a similar stuff. that's
for sure one other solution to use this
in order to have a isolated system I
would say where you can use reuse
in a circular way your your emissions
>> and make something positive out of it.
yeah and China is currently what I
have learned on my China trip is very
open for new markets and Europe is
actually the only stable market they are
aiming for in at the moment since US is
not a possibility for them currently.
>> Yeah.
>> So they invest a lot also on the
renewable side to make the standards
comparable or equally to the European
system. So also with certificates,
ESG documentations whatever so that
they are really competable and have
the possibility to enter the market.
>> That's what I plan to do.
>> Yeah. Cool. I have one more question
going back and then we are only
going to look forward is back let's say
20 years ago or something what was the
apprehension or or what were the
oil and gas people thinking about
renewables 20 years ago
>> 20 years ago yeah 20 years ago in
let me have a look 20 years ago there
was
it was something green something
which you would not seriously consider
20 years ago. I think 15 years ago
>>.
>> around there was or 10 years ago
there was already a kind of a peak or
some some kind of growth seeing on the
renewable markets
>> there. I think a lot of oil and gas
companies also BP and some they Shell
they had a look into the renewable
site but they invested they did
research they created project but
the renewable side never made the big
how do you say never made the race
>> since oil and gas projects the
companies are more focusing on project
economics and oil and gas projects never
have the same kind of economics than the
the renewable side. I think and I think
this is one of the reasons why
yeah there's still a battle between the
renewable and the oil and gas
projects
>> because of this project economics
approach and out of my experience I can
say this is for sure one of the
biggest hurdle hurdles to manage for
within an oil and gas company for the
renewables projects because you always
have to you always you're ranked on
your portfol in your portfolio
approach, you always have to beat
against the oil and gas projects
and it's hard to manage.
>> Yeah. And making memory 20 years ago,
maybe it was early 2000s the boom in
Spain because they started with solar.
then in 2010 it was higher because I
I met at Arasmos in these periods in
Spain and it was just like
starting to be a boom but it was in the
ivaric site more solar
>> and then they had the sand tax and then
all the story after. But it was like a
20 years ago starting I think like
>> being viable economically
>> eight
>> nine 10 I think it's more it's more
>> economically viable yes maybe but not
really competable with oil and gas.
Yeah. No, it's
>> Yeah, but I think what was
underestimated from the oil and gas side
which is currently the case is really
the speed of
cost deflation because now with
batteries the PV panels
wind whatever so it's really cost
is going down and now we're getting more
into a more in a range where we can more
compete I think that was underestimated
and I think also the
pressure from the society was actually
underestimated. now currently we
have a little bit of a backlash but I
think in the last couple of years also
the society was enforcing more
openness for doing something for the
climate.
>> I think this was also underestimated or
still maybe is a little bit on the
oil and gas side.
>> Yeah. And going into that topic of the
how people perceive the renewables,
is there a project from Bin energy on a
how do you call it the landfield?
>>.
>> Right. So how was that experience with
the local community and if if is that
idea replicable in other countries?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a it's a very
very useful blueprint I would say.
Yes, V min has it. It's the shlloka
because this is used
land. It's a brownfield position.
It's not green field. It's already used.
and yeah, you use it for something
positive now. And I think as long as you
are technically flexible to accept that
the terrain is not straight and so on.
and if there are also clear
regulations since like a re reuse
of this kind of sites has a
quick approval time. I think that's
something you could roll out all over
CE especially when it comes to I don't
know old mining areas we and so on
and we also have in planned another
project in Austria
which is also in an industrial area
where the land is used for something
else at the currently the population
around is used that there's some
industrial things ongoing and they
perceive the reusage of this
already used area for a positive climate
project as very positive.
>> Okay.
>> So I think it's it's the it's one option
to have a accelerate decarbonization.
Yeah.
>> Good to know.
>> Yeah. And just talking about the urban
area, geothermal is getting to be more
and more prominent proposition for all
the urban areas. It's I saw also in
Amsterdam they have been evaluating it.
in Vienna there's already one
of the big one
>> being done. What do you think that
in other what are the systemic risk
because in urban area there's so many
people and then are there any risk
affiliated with geothermal project being
in the urban areas
>> it all depends on the ge geology I
would say
in Vienna we have a very we have a very
special situation a very positive
situation we are not on a high-risk
tectonic system.
>> we do have a lot of sample
application and we have it's the Vienna
basin.
>> We have experiences from the oil and gas
site because OM was drilling there I
don't know 4 and a half thousand wells
into this ground. So there's a very
good understanding how the world
underneath theology is looking like. So
that's one thing which makes it very
attractive to go there. Now since we do
have a d-risisk model since we have
so much information to go there from the
geological point and the second thing is
why Vienna has has a very very good
preconditions is we do have this
district heating network one of the
biggest actually in Europe
>> which you have to use or can use
immediately. So two components are going
together. The one is this very good
geology.
>> Yeah.
>> On the other side this digital heating
network.
>> So coming back to the to thinking of
is it anywhere else also possible.
>> Yeah.
>> You have to check. Yeah. yeah I do
know that within Austria other basins
were analyzed where the risk is higher.
>>.
>> and canceled again. When it comes to
Europe it's the same. You also you
always have to think do we have this
distributing network heat
distributing network and do we have the
geology right yeah Buddhaest for
example
>> would have a would be in a very
beneficial situation due to the
geothermal
grading because it's it's a higher
>> it's a the geology there provides
higher temperatures so we could use it
for really very easy
easy to get high temperature water
out of it. But there we do know that the
seismicity so the seismic risk is
high. So you can you could do it with
monitoring AI approaches more
maintenance but it's more risk attached
to it. So you always have to check you
know the geology and you also always
have to check if there is a distributed
network.
>> It's also V energy looking into
geothermal
>> outside of Vienna
>> or in Vienna or somewhere.
>> No it's done. It's done.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> The geothermal it's done with in
combination with OM.
>> Yeah.
>>.
>> Last one year ago they you started to
drill. One year ago, we started to drill
and it was on the 22nd of August. We
finalized the first test very
successfully and we can we have proven
that the water has the right
temperature. We have the right amount of
volume of hot water and we can
continue with our strategy. Yeah. Yeah.
It's the company is called deep joint
venture oil and gas with the utility.
>> Yeah. I just want to go a bit
deeper with geothermal
because I find it so elegant and
clean and sophisticated. And in Chile we
have a lot of potential because of the
volcano but we also are cysmic
country. So I want to make the
difference also for the community
the difference of geothermal to
generate electricity to use it as a
direct heat.
>>.
>> So to generate electricity you need
deeper holes right just to
>> oh deeper holes that's you need higher
temperatures.
>> Let's call it like this. The
temperature makes a difference. Okay.
>> and this is connected to the
geothermal gradient.
meaning how how many degrees increase
of the degrees temperature increase do
we have by 100 m going down the earth
>> and this is different from the
tectonic situation
>> we in on a global scale so in
continental Europe where we are now with
in Indiana for example there is an
increase of the temperature 3°
degrees per 100 m. That's the gradient.
>>.
>> Chile has volcanoes, volcanic
activities, which means you're very
close to the really hot stuff. So that
you I don't know.
>> It shouldn't be so deep.
>> Exactly. I don't know the increase
of the temperature precisely, but
you're really close to the hot stuff. So
it depends where you drill. So couple of
hundreds meters, thousands of meters,
but you're really close to
>> couple of hundreds.
>> Okay. of degrees. Yeah.
>> And how deep is the drill in Vienna?
>> In Vienna, it's the reservoir is in
about three 3, 000 3 and a half thousand
meters.
>> Okay. And just give me a bit of hope
because my dream is to implement
geothermal in Chile in some point.
how can you
address the risks the risks?
It depends depend as I said it
depends in which tectonic regime you're
in Chile.
>> the two plates are
>> so yeah it's high risk high reward I
would say
>> in the in the Chile location.
Yeah.
>> But the technology currently can address
this risks or is not viable
>>
>> or depends. No, no, you can you have
to have a you have to have more
sensitivity when it comes to
reinjjection with the extraction. You
have to monitor it more close.
>>.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Yeah. So to keep it in mind,
>> there are experiences also in Europe
where you will have volcanic
activities like in the grand cabin in
Switzerland and so on. they have were
they have there were some failures but
they also cope with the risk so there
is experience also in Europe with
with high risk zones so you can manage
but it's riskier yeah you have to be
more sensitive yeah
>> okay okay
maybe we can move into
digitalization
>> exactly
>> because yeah you can go
>> no Just just before finishing the
urban renewable part also there's
there's a lot of community energy
cooperating that is existing in Vienna.
How is there any strategy of wind energy
about that to also have a energy
community maybe in
>> energy communities is our one of our
daily businesses I have to say. the
strategy is include people, be
transparent, communicate transparent,
tell,
show what's so they have to get the
community in by from the early stage on
and then it works. That's not a problem.
>> And is the V energy has its own energy
community as well? No, but it's dealing
with the energy communities. no no in
miny we have our own models.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> different kind of community models.
models where you can buy special
pieces or amounts of electricity and you
get you get vouchers for this. So
you're part of your own is a kind of
ownership model.
>> Mh.
but also
in that way that you get reduced
electricity prices when you yeah when
you're part of the community but we have
our own with the city of
Vienna but we also have communities
with private persons
>> and it's it's it's with the directive
of what energy and KMA fund has the I
mean they have
whole regulation about energy
communities. So that is the directive
that V energy has to deal with.
>> Yeah. And now going into digitalization
you are head of assets. So in bin
energy which has a lot of assets. So
we wanted
>> yeah we wanted to know how useful are
the digital twins to manage assets or
how are you dealing all the
management of the whole system that you
have but with digitalization are you
using digital twins are they useful are
are you using AI
>> and also what kind of asset energy hedge
I'm I'm heading the business
unit for
asset development
planning and then after it's
implemented more the strategic
approach. So what what can we do in
future with our assets? How can we
decarbonize? But I'm not heading the
just for information not heading the
asset management itself.
>> Okay.
>> So it's not that I'm optimizing
maintainance supervisions and so
on. This is a separate part.
>> my my my unit is more for the
strategic approach. What can we do when
our gas power plants are reaching
end of life
>> which can happen soon because they are
quite old. So some of them were built in
the 70s, others in the 80s. So they are
getting in their ages. how what can
we do afterwards? Yeah.
>> how can we decarbonize? How can we
still provide energy security in future
when
when the assets are not
usable anymore? that's one thing.
digital twins out of my experience I can
say it's always it's always an asset
in the asset management
>> because you can derisk your your
assets. You can simulate
the behaviors you can simulate
maintenance approaches yeah in
general it's it's a it's an option
to
yeah to
get a real an image of a
a 3D
simulation of your your asset. gas
power plant, wind whatever where you
can simulate different situations which
can happen in real life then
>> yeah because something that we also
heard in China it's they have a
new infrastructure the last 20
years they started to grow exponentially
so the grid is kind of new
>> but Europe is living another situation
which is a old grid old assets
all power plants.
>> So
what is your vision in the future of
Europe with the all infrastructure? They
could be they should be replaced soon
and make a plan or it should be more
optimized and more going into
digitalization and software. What is
your vision?
>> No. Yeah. I think that the best
approach would be to push digital
digitalization first and then
optimize old infrastructure or the
old assets. So first go for
digitalization connect the assets
make a bit a better flexibility in
your connections and then you go for
if you're new infrastructure or renew
the old one. I think that's but you
have to invest in both of course. Yeah,
>> because you can kick the ball as much as
you want, but at the end you have to
update the grid or change.
>> Absolutely. But first you have to
connect and get the information out and
then then you have you can be very much
more precise where it's urgently needed
to renew first and so you can
prioritize.
>> Yeah, that's a good approach.
>> And what is the strategy for Vin Energy?
And we heard about a new ac
acquisition as well for wind asset.
so overall strategy for the assets at
Vin Energy and what was the new
acquisition if you could tell us about
it.
>> So the key message is V energy is
providing energy for the city of Vienna.
>>.
>> Which has a clear goal that it has to be
decarbonized in 2014.
>>. meaning any kind of energy
consumption,
electricity, heat has to come of 100%
decarbonized renewable assets.
>>.
>> to getting there, yeah, we have
high goals.
>> Yeah. and then the end I don't
know we need 17 terowatt
I think hours in 2014 for the entire
consumption which cannot be done by the
way from within Vienna city alone. So
it has to incorporate all kinds of so
anti- Austria all countries of Austria
but also surrounding countries
so international countries so that we
really can fulfill our needs and provide
energy.
So to get there you need producing
asset you need a pipeline you need
properties.
>>. And this is a lot of work.
>> Yeah.
>> And Invinc which was the acquisition
has already a big pipeline has
producing assets. so we need it they
have it. So it was a perfect match
to reach the goals and with this
we will reach the goal. we will
reach the goal on the on the electricity
side. So 2.8 8 gawatt in 2040
coming purely out of this of this
deal and we also will reach it with
the geothermal application with heat
power and of course
when we are in time with maturing our
hydro hydrogen
goals then we will be completely re
re net zero net free climate neutral
in 2014.
Okay, that's make a perfect pass to a
hot topic.
>> I want to applaud.
>> Okay, so the
regarding the gas dependency with the
Russian situation now, the gas getting
into Europe, but also you mentioned the
hydrogen strategy. So what is your
vision with the implementation of
hydrogen in Europe? If
you should use the existent pipelines
and modernize or just start from the
scratch and to build a new hydrogen
network.
>>
old pipelines are not the issue.
You can you could you can use them if
you upgrade them a little bit for the
hydrogen trans transports. The issue
there is more the joints the compressors
so where which are not hydrogen
ready. I would say creating a new
infrastructure I think it's not the
goal. It's more or let's face it phrase
it differently what we should use or
reuse are these corridors. So
the areas where already existing
pipelines are
>> we should use some of them we
have to refurbish other and other areas
we have to we can create something new
but go for the existing corridors I
think that's the main message why
it's permitted there they are
already done and yeah it's industry
and people and we know the corers
then already. I think that's the
strategy to go.
>> Yeah. But technically hydrogen is
difficult to manage because it's too
small particle, right? So we have
heard about using blending
>> in the current gas
pipeline
>> infrastructure. But they can they be
used completely with hydrogen the
current or they have to be retrofitted
or changed?
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's it depends. There
are some pipeline
steel
how to say there are some there are
some kind of material mixtures which are
capable and some are not capable. So you
have to reassign re-evaluate I think
>> the whole structure and then to choose
where to change
>> exactly from case to haze on the
pipeline side..
>> I think the more critical thing is and
which you have for sure you have to
exchange is as I said the joints the
compressor stations this part because
they have to be retro so they have to
retrofit refurbished or changed there
>> okay
>> but there are different mixture steel
mixtures I call it now I don't know the
English expression which are capable to
use not only 15 to 20% planted hydrogen
also more
>> and others are not so it's different
>> yeah okay And are they in the bin
energies plan in the future?
>> Yeah, it's we have a strategy for it.
Yeah, we are part of different
consorts
dealing with different corridors.
South corridor, east corridor, north
corridor, different corridors. but we
go for hydrogen. Yeah.
>> Okay. I want to understand also
about the district heating network. Is
it also part of something that you work
on or no? me in my role not okay med
yes for sure
>> and are they are they
expanding the heating district heating
network or I think in Vienna it's
already very robust right
>> absolutely
>> when it comes to hydrogen then we have
to have extra pipelines of course
>> yes but we just also want to
understand like we were talking about
the hydrogen part and currently in
other countries the whole
pipeline system It's pretty old and what
is the impact of having old pipeline if
the energy is lost or the infrastructure
is needed or they can just be used as
well the old pipelines can can still be
used and we can
>> as I said it depends
>> on the age of the pipeline and it also
depends on the material of the
pipeline
>> so it's it's different from case to
case I just
One one example out of my
experience or from my daily life is we
part of a consortia
>> where we would where we will think to
import hydrogen to Austria if everything
is maturing and so on in 20 36
>> and with this import we are will
reuse existing infrastructure.
>>. a little bit made hydrogen ready
mean partly they have to be re to be
refurbished I don't know made it
hydrogen ready but reusage updated infra
pipeline infrastructure
>> and also you at V energy you're
working with a lot of Eastern
European countries what you do you
feel anything challenging ing there
as in terms of policy that you think
that could be changed in let's call it
which are the more important countries
that wind energy is working in the
eastern European part right now
>> all countries are important I have to
say but I think the key issue is
some of them are in the EU some of
them are not in the EU and I think
what's really needed is it's a common
regulatory framework which is not
existing one together which is not
existing currently
>> to speed up the process. This is what
it's needed and it's also needed one
constant
tariff
>> net tariff or feeding tariff any kind of
electricity tariff because then I
think for investors it would be more
attractive to go there because it
derisks of course your capital
allocation.
So, common legal framework and
maybe a common
feeding electricity
priced system would be necessary
or would be nice to have
>> and V energy is also doing couple of
projects in Balkans, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Interesting. And it's it's challenging.
It's challenging due to the different
D situations and regulatory situations
and yeah
>> good grid access regulations
property regulation. Some of the
countries they do have very simple
catast
they do know who is the owner
of the land property started
there. In some countries you don't even
have this kind of registration. So
you have to find out first who is the
owner. So it's it's different from
country to country. yeah
>> and especially depending also being
within the EU being outside of EU.
>> Yeah. we are now in 19th of November
and we heard also news in this week that
European Union changed a bit the
strategy to the like the grid connection
queue. at the end they're going to
prioritize some if it has base or not
if it's environmental friendly or not.
How do you see this direction? Yeah,
very very good because it gives an
equal chance to
>> to everybody to the utilities and
everybody developers because you have
clear how do you say clear directions
what you have to apply that you are
getting prioritized.
>>. In contrary, this is in contrary to
the past. The past was more first come
first serves. Here we do have now a
clear a clear how to say standard what
have to be done. and best for me it's
anyway the way to go and it's also
the way to go for wind energy because it
helps to stabilize the grid. It also
takes a little bit of pressure out of
the grit
exchange or growth or development.
yeah.
>> Yeah. Actually you acquired recently
this 12 megatt hours project in
invest
>> we acquired. No we did not acquire we
are creating ourself.
>> it is for yourself.
>> Yeah we are developing. Which one do you
mean which required?
>> 12 megawatt hours project
>> or
>> in within Vienna or
>> in Vienna
>> some news around
>> can be
>> it's
we are enlarging we do have a battery
there and we enlarging the battery.
and then there are a couple of others
which is in development but these are
not board it's our own own development.
>> Other intrinsic topic recently it's the
approval in the Austrian landscape is
the approval of the draft for the
electrical law.
>> Oh
>> okay that expression but what is your
feeling or what do you think? It's for
us really really critical that it
that it's
that it will reworked a little bit
on the favorite to our side to the
developers and utilities because it
makes it really hard to invest further
in future.
>> Okay. So now let's go to the future.
Yeah, we are getting into the end. So
we have this question for the for the
guests. what would you do with
hundred million euros to accelerate any
transition
>> apart from giving it to us
>> investing in sorry
na me is u from the from mean energy
focusing on
energy provision for the city itself.
that I would invest it in a urban
hybridization
or project which can be then rolled out
all over to different cities meaning
solar geothermal and digitalization. So
this package to make it more how to
say more standalone kind of energy
provider
>> provision system.
>> Okay. Also in terms of the emerging
tech at V energy what do you think is
going to disrupt or going to be
implemented faster? Agree Walt or
integrated geothermal?
>> for sure I agree PV because
it's
it's it's easy to implement and it's
scalable. It's it's it's quickly
scalable.
>> Yeah. but on a long-term scale
geothermal of course has its power.
it will be implemented
but just on a slower pace.
just it's a it's a bit of radical
question but we heard from you
that Van Energy is going to be reaching
its 2040 goals very easily after
the acquisition that you had about the
electricity but Vienna as a whole you
think what is the realism where is it
going and
will there be any need for some
imports from maybe Czech Republic or
somewhere Yeah.
>> so on the electricity side,
>> yes,
>> no no need
>> if everything goes well.
>> and on time. on the heat side,
still I would also say there is no need
for any imports if we are successful
in geothermal heat pumps. But also as
I said before hydrogen for storage
external storage
>> so if we really maturing all our
ideas pipelines on time with the right
space getting all the permissions
done establishing in the background
the market
>> then we
we have the vision that we are kind of
resilient and independent from any
imports.
>>. And yeah just controversial
because now it's again on the table
nuclear power.
>> Yes.
>> What do you think about it its
develop
of nuclear power plants? New new
ones.
>> What's my personal opinion?
I'm an Austrian.
I'm a generation X kind of person. So
I'm I have a lot of doubts about
nuclear. there's this
historical case that we do have this
nuclear power plant which was never
taken into
>> Yeah. It's built but it was never
run.
>> Exactly. It was never run because we
don't were demonstrating. So I'm part of
this kind of generation. So it's in my
DNA inherited that we are not supporting
it. But overall small modular nuclear
power plants which are already in
construction. of course it's a very
clever idea. It's a kind is clean. it's
it does not have any emissions.
>> I would say if there's not any
kind of other energy forms established
in the next 30 years for sure nuclear
will have a revival.
>> Yeah. But just to I love that Vienna has
in its constitution that it's
unconstitutional to build nuclear power
plants. It's it's something.
>> Yeah. But we are small country
and we are surrounded by I don't know
how many power plants also in Czech and
Slovakia on seismic active lines you
know. So
>>.
>> talking about legacies what do you think
the becoming fossil engineer could learn
from your journey from the this side to
bridging and going to the renewable
side?
>>
stay flexible. I think the most
important thing is adaptability and
flexibility is the new expertise.
the science or the technology is the
same. It's just the purpose is
different. So take take the
opportunity to contribute on the good
side and don't stop taking the
opportunity
because of not changing the mindset.
>>. And which advice would you would
you do would you make to the new energy
professionals who are joining the
sector?
>> Yeah, I think engineers or any people
who are interested in energy should take
the opportunity to be part of this
this big challenge which is the
challenge of energy transition..
>> be an active part, take the
challenge. drive it and don't wait.
>> Amazing.
>> Last question to our classmate.
How do you miss the class?
>> A lot.
>> Yeah.
>> A lot.
>> Regards to all the classmates.
>> Exactly. See you guys. Hope to meet you
soon again. congratulations once
again that you all finalized finished
the studies. I'm very proud of you.
>> Oh, thank you. And is there something
that we didn't ask and you would like to
share with us and the community?
>> I think we seriously all take the
opportunity to own the energy
transition. It's our chance to make a
better better word. Sounds very
traumatic
but time is now. It's not later. I
mean there are a lot of backlashes, a
lot of polit geopolitical situations
which are not in favor of a
transition in the cleaner energy
system currently. But we all should take
the opportunity or take the
energy to be part of this to own this
energy transition. I think that's the
most important thing and it can be done
by everybody.
>> Amazing.
>> Thank you very much Nicolola. It's been
a pleasure.
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, super grateful to have you here.
>> Thank you for the invitation.
>> Maybe we can have you again in the
future or in the energy forums that we
are organizing
>> after the next exhibition.
>> Yeah.
>> Anytime.
>> Yeah. And also thanks to the community
for watching the interview until the end
and stay tuned for future episodes.
Ciao.
>> Byebye.
>> Bye.

Crossing the Bridge: Nicola Kofler on ImWind Acquisition & @WienEnergieGmbH 2040 Vision|TEB-S1E13

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Brownfield PV Accelerates Decarbonization

Geothermal Viability Depends on Geology

Digitalization Precedes Grid Renewal

EU Grid Prioritization Favors Stability

Austrian Electricity Law Hinders Investment