S1E03

Business of BESS - Manufacturing & Selling Energy Storage with Alexandra Hu - InterSolar Ep- 3

with Alexandra Hu· Tacmen· 37m

TL;DR

Energy storage market dynamics and opportunities in Europe discussed.

Synopsis

Alexandra Hu from Tacmen shares insights on the energy storage market, emphasizing the importance of partnerships and local market knowledge. The conversation covers the evolution of energy storage technology and its integration into renewable energy systems.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 5

80%
Canada's hydro energy share
32 years
Tacmen founding history
30 years
Western Europe transition time
2017
Tacmen's founding year
2018
First year at Intersolar

Topics

4 tags

energy storagemarket dynamicspartnershipsregulatory challenges

Stats

Duration: 37m
Words: 5.5k
Questions: 27

Timeline

5 chapters

Episode Introduction
Introduction to the podcast and Alexandra Hu.
Tacmen Overview
Alexandra discusses Tacmen's founding and its focus on energy storage.
Canada's Energy Landscape
Discussion on Canada's energy generation, emphasizing the 80% hydro share.
Market Opportunities
Alexandra highlights the potential in Eastern Europe for energy storage.
Closing Remarks
Wrap-up of the conversation and thanks to Alexandra.

Key insights

4 takeaways

01
Eastern Europe as a growth market
Eastern Europe presents significant opportunities for energy storage due to its emerging market dynamics.
02
Importance of local partnerships
Collaborating with local partners is crucial for navigating market complexities and ensuring successful project implementations.
03
Regulatory landscape impacts
Regulations can both facilitate and hinder market entry, affecting the pace of energy storage adoption.
04
Shift towards industrial energy storage
The focus is moving from residential to industrial energy storage solutions, reflecting market maturity.

Pull quotes

1 quote

It's not about the product, it's about what the final customer wants.
Alexandra Hu

Transcript863 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

Welcome to a new episode of the energy
bridge. You see here in Inter Solar 2025
third day here in
final day. Yes.
Final day.
Final final minute.
Final minute.
Final final final. And yeah, we are very
happy to have finally Alexandra very
busy and traveler.
The traveler. Yeah. I live live on the
plane.
Living on the plane.
Someday I told you that you live in a
constant jet lag like with a time shift.
I learned how to be smarter. It's
like vertical fly.
So don't shift the continent horizontal.
Amazing.
And then you don't you don't fix too
much jell. But still, yeah, I feel so
like for exhibitions jacently
talk.
Yeah, it is what it is. So,
hey, Alexander, we would like you to
introduce yourselves for the community
as we know and a friend and our
classmate, but for the community, if
you could tell your role at Teleman and
also about Teleman a bit.
Definitely, definitely.
hi, Energy Bridge, you say like a
tab, right?
Tab
tab folks folks. Hi there. So, this is
Alexandra. I'm in charge of the
Tacmen's global market. It's great honor
to be here finally. and I met
Daniel and Rahul since two years ago.
two years ago in our class in TEN
renewable masters and when I'm in
Europe I live in Vienna and I
actually I'm very exciting to be here
because I like I witness how you convert
this from a idea and to reality
and this is also what's the start of
tackle man
finally like translate to this right
amazing
yeah because actually the
parent company is Colomo and it was
founded more than like 32 years ago
and starting as a switch gear and
energy solution company and it was
a special time for infrastructure
development and that's how we catch the
wind and in 2017
the idea is about energy transition
and u many of renewable renewable energy
like solar and wind has already been
deployed and people are quite fresh
about the idea of energy storage
but we come out of utility
background so that we know energy is
not just generation it's a system
where you have generation you have
transmission you have distribution
it's just like I think of it like a
digestive system right so you got to
eat you create energy
but if you eat too much and you
have a right not so good digestive.
Yeah. And you it just got a waste. It
just got a waste just like the abandoned
solar electricity generator or wind
electricity generated. So that's how
I understand the system of battery
because we saw the like very steep
growth of renewable stores especially
in Europe and we know that there got
to be some time you need to digest
previously it's hunger and hunger hunger
but now it's like too much how to take a
digestive fuel
as a energy storage. So we have this
idea and we found the company in 2017
and actually the next year 2018 is
the first year that we come to in solar.
It's also my first year into solar.
Okay.
And back then I wasn't in B1 Hall. We
call it like a num numa ice like number
one hall.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But at that time
it's it's like a very fresh thing for us
because many of the participants
come out from a solar background
actually
and they've been here like more than 10
years.
Exactly.
It's a very very old show, historical
show.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah. And we saw that I think
back in 2017 it's about also ABC but
you have like three halls or two
halls like two rows but now it's four.
So
Alexander we want to know a bit more
about tech but first just a bit about
your journey. So what did you study
before before getting into energy and
how was your transition into energy?
Okay. So my background is actually in
computer engineering. I was studying
in University of Toronto.
and actually I entered as a
mechanical engineering.
Oh wow.
But I think one I am one of those spario
kids. we have no idea what is
mechanical engineering. When I choose
the major I thought Iron Man,
right? I like that's the only channel
that I know. And when I enter and you
have to study like a structural
analysis, you have to study like matrix
like a linear algebra all this kind of
stuff. It's fun but I have no clue what
kind of role it can lead me to. So on
the second year I transit into
computer engineering because
like at that time it's what cool kids do
comesai. So I transit into computer
engineering and it's quite exciting
journey for me because we learn a lot of
interesting stuff like parallel
programming FPGA
like none of those I have related
now to
so actually when I graduated we were
doing this apnea analysis so using
machine learning just do automatic
dynamosis
of stop breathing while sleeping.
So it's a it's a very it's a very fun
projects to do but still it's like
you're in the ivory tower
because you're in a pre- setup
experiment environment
like you're comfy and there are written
roads for you but
yeah it's in Canada and as you can
imagine like you can see what's your
life is after like 14 14 years. So
for me I would like to know a little
bit more about what's going on around
the world. and renewable is one
of my interests. I actually the
first time I have any contact with
this industry is back in 2013 when we
were doing a project and it's
like one of the small capstone mock
capstone that we do in school and I
was working with BF rock power they were
doing developments sustainable
developments in Canada and they do
like wind they do solar
and I like we were in charge of the
marketing part but they are all very
smallsized
and that the reason is like Canadian
markets they are born renewable because
80% of the energy generation comes from
hydro and the like the left 20 % is
for nuclear
and nuclear but they don't have a
they have they have also they have like
a biomass but those are the major
like the major rough 80 8020 and
that's it.
Okay. So you can really see any you
know big opportunities there but they do
have like a global adjustment back in
2013 which I haven't even graduated
yet but that gave me a rough idea about
climate change and
renewable and after graduation so
instead of go going into master study
or like go to research center because
previously with the experiment we do
like research and I find quite
confined. So I come to Tacoma because
they just found it and it's fresh and
they need people who speak English. So I
think I'm the one and I come to learn
and it's a it's a fresh subject for
me
and I like back then when I travel
to Germany I come to in solar I also
come to like handover industrial show.
And I find everything is so fresh.
Nothing is written on text.
It's very dynamic.
So you see and then you touch it and you
talk with people. But very funny
because back then as I
said energy storage is very fresh. So
when I was introducing about energy
storage you tell them the story. Okay.
you got to you got to store the
electricity and you got to release
it. I said why why you going to release
it then? mostly the motive is
subsidition
because of
because I can because it's free right
and the second part is I want to
use the green energy
like my solar panel generated and now
I want to use it. So those are the major
sub subjective and the second reason is
actually for spoiled and
a very privileged just society to say it
because not everywhere they can have
subsidy and they can say that I have
this value of sustainability and I pay
for it right so I that's why I learned
that actually
European market is a very privileged
market or I say it's like more civilized
market and that's why it becomes the
leader who actually cultivates the
industry.
Alexander, you in your introduction,
you already said about you're looking
you look into the global market for
techmen.
Which markets are interesting for you?
we are in Europe, we intera for
Germany but starting from here which
of the country and regions are more
interesting for you?
We are recording. We are recording but
but you can come to say hi.
Say hi.
You can say hi. You're already here.
I would like to say goodbye to my fellow
friends.
No. Nice into meeting you.
See you soon.
Thank you very much for everything.
Thank you.
See you next year maybe.
Yeah. Okay.
Thank you.
Yeah. Great question. So for us I'll
explain why global market because
you see like there was for the
last I think 80 years
there was like a modernization
of society
and the key role or key feature of
modern society is the infrastructure.
It's a brand new infrastructure you can
use electricity.
And
and now
we see the same thing is going on like
because back then for this
industrial revolution like it's all over
the globe, right? It's a now or later.
So I see exactly the same thing
happening for all over the globe now
or later. It's just like a different
demand. So as I just mentioned
European is more like a privileged
society or like a large community or
union but as you mentioned for four
countries the first Germany of course
it's a it's a leaders and one
motive for Germany market is that
it's it's a leader and it's a number
one who lead this transition and for
us it's like I an icon to be present in
this market. So we set up our company
here. We actually have office and
warehouse and training center here in
Germany because we think it's very
important to collaborate with
local network here
who actually have been in this
industry since the very beginning.
Yeah. So
yeah all mo all most of the jeans you
know come from here and then they be
heritaged herit yeah
and then elaborate a little bit
out so we actually our first market is
bannon and we're still very interested
in that
okay
because this market is very active
and Netherland is very famous
for innovation and creating something
new. You live there, .
Yes. So we would like to be active there
and we have our wonderful partner
positron who introduced us there and who
successfully built the name together
and we really appreciate that because
they help us to step take
this first step
and strongly and we would like to
continue this partnership and for
other markets very exciting market
definitely is Eastern Europe.
Yes.
Including like Hungary like u
Bulgaria, Romania,
Czech Republic, Poland and all of
them.
Yeah. And we're already taking actions.
We're doing the great integrated
certifications. We work with our
local partners. we actually also have
a planning to set up factory because
the idea is local to local
where can we say or is still
right now under discussion is Romania.
Okay.
Yes.
I think one of the reason is
actually a lot of technicians are from
Romania even like in Germany. So
they know the market very well and
they just joined the European Union like
the Shenen region and I think that's
great sign that the
Romania society or like industry is
having a conversion or economic
environment is having a transition a
good one.
Yeah. and we would like to get on
this together with our friends. Yeah.
Amazing. What you mentioned about
partnerships, we have seen it in many
interviews, collaboration and you are
applying it between companies. So
that's amazing to
increase your market and being more
robot. for this.
Yeah. I think not not only the market,
it's more about it's it's more
about we have the friends in the
industry who have firsthand information.
So because like it's a
survival game although it's like a you
know privileged market. It's a
survival game and you want to know which
direction is the right direction. So
it's like a hunting right? Do you want
the best information and you want
like a team a squad
like to nail to nail. So for us
it's it's very nice to have our
partner our friends not necessarily a
company but we're very open to
collaborate share insights so
you are going to be the for
last three days we have seen many
different kind of people being your
collaborators like especially we saw
from the distribution side a lot a lot
of people from the EPC side as well.
Yeah, EPC sides a very important role
because our focus is in industrial
energy storage and in industrial
there's so many different industries
different industry means different
solutions.
Exactly.
So not only EPC like there are different
EPCs and there are different player and
from upstream to downstream were
already all interested. Okay.
Yeah. because know at the very
beginning we were doing residential it's
a standard product it's a standard one
but the thing is you have to know
it's a supply chain and I am part of the
supply chain or even like above supply
chain we say value chain what value are
you creating for this ecosystem
and we want to hear what people are
talking about this because previously
when we pitch we just pitch about our
product later they Now we figure out
it's not about the product, it's about
what the final customer wants.
Okay.
Right. And the final customer wants is
sometime it's a very abstract thing.
It's like a energy service, right? And
how do you define that? How how do you
supply that? So every value chain or
every supplier in the value chain
they are going to define their
interface.
Yeah.
And how they communicate. And the
question we ask every day within our
team is what can we do more about our
products? What can we do more about how
to support you in the presence and in
services? So we actually work with a
lot of different partners like
very like out of your imagination
like Bitcoin.
So they also come to us.
Yeah. And previously we were
approached like three years ago
but now they are more motivated
because of our scale up so the
price goes down and they have more drive
to come to approach us and talk about of
overall solution and end customer is
again it's different. So for us it's
quite interesting
they talk about all different kind of
scenarios.
So as you we ask like what kind of
partners. So
actually a lot even our competitor can
be our partner sometimes.
It was very interesting for me
talking to yesterday and they said
one of the early project that they did
in Ben market was a lot of farmers at
a farmer area where they had PB and you
never expect them to be early adopters.
But how do you see that like them being
the early adopters? subsidy as I said
subsidy
because it's free why not
right and but of course another another
drive is actually the installers
because including
the PV parts is decreasing or it
becomes more competitive so they also
want to generate another stream like
a cash flow like generation line so
they're considering what to have right
so if I'm placing myself in their
shoe. Maybe after like after
energy stories may they may install
chargers and we have this this
concept was discussed like six
years ago
because we saw that every of one of them
have tractor by themsel.
And I was in the Bowman show I think
one month ago.
Yeah. And I saw a full set of
Caterpillar tractors including
charging solutions all electrified.
Yeah.
So think of that
tractors. Wow.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So anyways they got
to apply loans to for
apply loans to buy the tractors. Why not
electric? They got to be more. So
I think subsidy plays a very important
role to open the opportunity.
Yeah, I don't know if they are kicking
us out or with this announcement.
Maybe we can we can continue
regardless. Everyone understands we are
at interolar a lot of noises but it's
very interesting what you're saying.
We also want to understand
what is going on in the market right
now? what kind of solution are selling
more and people are inquiring because in
at interolar there are a lot of inquiry
going on at wel
I think the most inquiries happens
when people have pave already
and now they think okay
big plants in big scale
yeah bigger scale big scale because
smaller scales they will go to like our
partner positron
okay
yeah so big scales because they are
developed not by the final owner not
by the individual owner they're
developed by the development
companies with their own investors so
they have a promise of a return
right and when there's too many PV on
there
fitted carriage goes down same happen
with wind okay
and the expected return goes down or
even negative
negative yeah
and what what actions they can Okay. Is
they add battery,
they figure out another kind of business
model, they add it on there and they
make it positive and they have to take
this kind of actions and it's a
profitable action because having like
collocation make the project more
resilient.
just you mentioned before that
renewable energy is one of your
interests.
So what are your other other interest?
I have so many so many interest. I have
so many interests. So others
Oh okay. I like AI concepts
and also applications.
I like spiritual things.
Okay. Such such as
like
such as I don't know how to name those.
Okay. Well, we can have a separate like
with our beer maybe like I'll get
prepared and I'll share but it's
it's also very very interesting. It's
like
at this time like before we go into the
other interest one more question.
Yeah. Yeah. I jump
on the on the same side. so
for example when we were talking
about the inquiries and it was mostly
with the PB scale PV and they were
inquiring about the storage. You see
especially from the wind farm and
when the off onshore or offshore wind
farm they just go for the electrolyers
and offshore yeah offshore is difficult
they want to create hydrogen but
technology is going together hand in
hand like storage hydrogen and what I
want to ask here is that
it's floating away
yeah it's flowing away but it's it's
very interesting it will for someone who
is manufacturer How do they see
because we were also talking with
Johnny and about new technology and
new products coming in where
okay I know where we're going.
so I think new products means first
of all new solutions but it has to
reside somewhere as I said it's a it's a
digestive system or it's like a whole
system including absorbing
and
Right. So you have a whole system. So
any technology will lay into the system
and or like software solution make it
more effective
or with a better prediction and then
you got to come back because the
structure doesn't really change that
much.
And what comes back to the
technology I think
one thing about one because you see
like the systematic view is from
from me and from many people who has
power industry backgrounds
but from from renewable industry it's
it's a little bit different I think
because there was a background of
climate change and the net zero
and that is a new narrative was
created 30 or 40 years ago
and this somehow create some demand.
Yeah. like aligning some forces, right?
Because before it was like global
warming, then it was forced
investment or capital to enter to invest
and that is a brilliant brilliant
act. Yeah. So now when it goes further
down, I think it's no longer just about
the narrative, it's about strong and
real demand. because what they
create is that they use the narrative
they set up the absorption part
right and they create those
generation or like hydrogen they can be
also generation
and then like that push another demand
for digestion. So now you will see a
cycle one pushes the other.
But back to the energy storage
technology. We were also talking about
sodium. We were also talking about like
long duration.
But you have to come back to a very
re real perspective is cost
because I think living in force is
already quite magical. If you see the
the if you see the history of how this
technology come
grow
with the price is very high and
yeah it's amazing because
you did it about I think the 1960 or
something and the major drive is
to get rid of oil like not get rid of at
least it's alternative
and actually mobile is the one
so oil and gas. Yes. Yes. It's the one
who drive the research side of leading
battery from the very beginning but they
give up. They give up. They just here's
the money. Do it. No results. Okay,
stop. Bye-bye.
So this is what they do. Many of the
venture capital also do that. but
so they actually create a very
difficult situation because you
know like the very noble scholar
Dr. good enough.
Who who who was one of the top
researcher of lithium battery and he
contribute a lot into this area. he
doesn't benefit like financially
from their own invention
and they also have co-authors they
give the patents to the English
academy and they sell it to I think
Panasonic or another Japanese company
and then they have that patent but later
there's another I think a scholar who
was publishing something else or
Panason I don't remember but basically
several ones have the same patents and
it's somehow got open open
sourced.
So that's how everybody got their
patents and start to make battery and
it's no longer about the academic
invention itself. So it's not only about
technology. What it's more important is
manufacturing process. How do you have
the best process to make this happen on
a large scale
defines what become the mainstream and
that is what happened now and so that's
how we got cheap and affordable
technology.
I have two questions but before that
I'll let Daniel ask some more
questions.
No no no please go ahead. I is still
processing the story behind like with
the patterns and everything. Yeah, I'll
send I'll send you some more information
about it. I think you can make a extra
episode about this
about it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you see like
so many companies coming to lithium and
they create the small ones. What about
the big ones, ? Exactly. And how
how it goes to point
Yeah. How it goes to like China and
how how China make a large scale out of
it like
Nice. Amazing. So basic. So my question
Alexander to you is
Techlan is trying to enter many
different market at the same time
and how do you see the changes in the
market the regulation how are they
enabling regulation or are they
distracting or constraint?
Well it's a it's a complex topic and
there are so many markets.
Yeah.
Yeah. Some markets still are still
learning because still energy storage
is fresh to them.
And well we saw that
famous for compliance European Union is
it's tighten it's that's what we saw and
I think it's it's it's it's
double-edged so good and bad
the good perspective is it
becomes more standard
and make the competition more fair
make the entrance barrier higher
and that that is definitely a good thing
especially for consumers,
right? Pro consumers. But on the bad
sides, I think it's about the
adoption.
But I don't blame because
European markets did the first
adoption.
It's always a early adopter. So I think
they contribute too much to the
industry. they can retrieve and give
others more opportunity.
No, it's wrong. It's wrong.
Okay. And my closing question is
about which which is the easier
market. you already talk about
the regulation part of it but in terms
of also like for example you have
a ch office in Chile too and it's a
very advanced market in terms of TV.
how do you see the difference that
you're learning from different markets?
I think it's to define easy
market I would say easy market are ready
market because we're already a very
mature manufacturer and solution
supplier when we come to u mature market
which is like a ready market
it's easy for us it's very easy on the
communication side on the education
sides and easy to find partners because
many partners are already self
cultivated by by positive cash
flow already. So that that is a easy
market and difficult markets are
actually markets who lacks fund.
Yeah. Because in the end somebody
have to pay for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
And
just a follow-up question on that like
when you said like someone had to pay
for it. So how is that? we understood
also from from Mike Mikuel the
CEO of society that eastern market even
if they are not able to pay
just because they have
they are able to pay
compared to some other regions
compared to some other regions that they
they might have restraint but they
are also trying to invest in energy
storage more compared to some other
countries because their grid are not
able to take so what I'm trying to ask
you is that how but the regulation is
not supporting but people want it
there's a need there's a bit of demand
and supply gap over Yeah. So, how do you
see market progressing in the next
years?
I think Eastern Europe will
keep this momentum.
Because not much has been realized.
And you got to understand like in the in
the previous 10 years,
yeah,
they're just watching,
right? They're just
they're just looking at a lot of
things has been done already from
Western Europe.
Yeah. and they saw all those different
applications being down
and when it comes back to Eastern
Europe it's just a beginning
so I from what I think is there are
large large opportunities
residing in Eastern Europe and they
are actually very aggressive because
it takes 30 years for western
countries to come here today.
Yeah.
And they're very cautious
and they don't do many big scale
energy storage projects
but for Eastern Europe
they the witness in the end you got to
have the big ones
so why don't we just have it now.
No
the leaf frogging.
Yes.
for the western market that they do they
are they can just leave some step and
already move to energy storage
because it's proven to be successful
and you can also find mature partners
from western Europe
because many players are actually from
western Europe or even Middle East
they mas are acquiring tons of pipelines
again in Romani and Bulgaria so
they're just directly for acquisition so
So I think that they also see this
opportunities residing here.
Amazing. There is something else that
you would like to add in this this
interview.
I think this is only like the first
interview.
So we can do tons of it and we can
invite more friends. We can do round
table. I think
it would be amazing.
Yes. Yes.
Thank you very much Alexandra. And I
just want to add I'm so glad it finally
happened with me.
Thanks, man. Difficult to catch you.
Yeah, we were looking forward to it for
a very long time. So, we are thankful
that it finally happened and we get to
learn so much from you always.
Yeah. Yeah. We are being humble.
Many
the next time I got to ask you
questions.
Okay. Welcome. Yeah.
Look forward to that. Yeah.
So, thank you very much for having
us, for your collaborative spirit, for
having us here in the boot. It has been
a pleasure to work together.
It's our pleasure, too,
because there there are more
conversations just out of like a what
do you need? what's the price? You
know, exactly. you're you're initiates a
more meaningful not more meaningful
but also meaningful
conversations like outside of the
scope of product services solution
because your observation
perspective is from
higher up
externally we are trying to understand
about the whole landscape so yeah it's
very great to have you here
amazing thank you Alexandra thank you
everyone everyone for watching the
episode until the end and see you next
time. Now we're still here in Inter
Solar but maybe leaving
living yeah last minute
in last minute. So last goodbye from
Munich. Okay,
bye-bye.

Business of BESS - Manufacturing & Selling Energy Storage with Alexandra Hu - InterSolar Ep- 3

Eastern Europe as a growth market

Importance of local partnerships

Regulatory landscape impacts

Shift towards industrial energy storage