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S2E13

Powering Regional Energy Autonomy: The Role of Community Engagement | Energiepark Bruck/Leitha | S2E13

with Karin Mottl· Energiepark Bruck/Leitha· 58m

TL;DR

Energiepark Bruck/Leitha demonstrates how municipal engagement, localized ownership structures, and tailored cross-technology deployment can make a rural region an electricity exporter while pursuing heating and mobility decarbonization. Founder and community alignment kept projects independent of political shifts and laid the groundwork for academic and innovation hubs like the TU Wien master's program. Regional integration hurdles persist across Central and Eastern Europe due to legacy fossil/nuclear lobbies and grid bottlenecks.

Synopsis
Karin Mottl, CEO of Energiepark Bruck/Leitha, unpacks 30 years of bottom-up energy transition in Lower Austria. Starting with municipal biomass to avoid fossil gas infrastructure, the park evolved to manage over 240 MW of assets, spanning wind, PV, and biogas through distinct local project companies. Mottl details how community trust and education drove widespread technology acceptance, the rationale behind launching an international renewable energy master's program with TU Wien, and the practical challenges of grid absorption for new storage and hydrogen developments. She also reflects on cross-border transition dynamics with neighboring Slovakia, energy efficiency economics, and regional innovation funding.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 6
  • 30 municipalities
    in the Bruck an der Leitha region covered by the initiative
  • about 100,000
    people living in the region
  • 140 MW
    electrolyzer capacity planned by OMV in Bruck an der Leitha
  • 240 MW
    approximate asset capacity managed by Energiepark
  • about 40%
    share of regional heat demand covered by renewables
  • 8 to 10%
    share of regional mobility covered by renewables

Topics

7 tags
community energywind powerbiomasshydrogenenergy educationaustriagrid constraints
Stats
Duration
57m
Words
9.2k
Questions
101
Speakers
3

Daniel Schaub · Karin Mottl · Rahul Mishra

Timeline

9 chapters

  1. Karin Mottl's Background

    Karin Mottl discusses her transition from Austrian telecoms to natural resource management and her path to CEO of Energiepark.

  2. Community Engagement Model

    Mottl explains how municipal buy-in and depoliticized local dialogue founded the project's broad public acceptance.

  3. Evolution of Energiepark

    The discussion covers the shift from a municipal biomass heating plant to wind, solar, and biogas assets.

  4. Academia and Education Initiatives

    Mottl recounts launching an international renewable energy master's program with TU Wien to solve early talent shortages.

  5. Industrial Hydrogen and Efficiency

    The conversation shifts to OMV's 140 MW electrolyzer project and the role of green hydrogen versus energy efficiency.

  6. Cross-Border Lessons for Slovakia

    Mottl contrasts Austrian renewable deployment with neighboring Slovakia's reliance on nuclear and fossil incumbents.

  7. Innovation Foundation and the LIMES Prize

    Mottl presents Energiepark's Forschungsstiftung and its mentoring prize for regional clean energy solutions.

  8. Corporate Structure and Ownership

    Energiepark's legal framework is outlined, where individual wind and biomass parks operate as distinct SPVs owned with regional stakeholders.

  9. Grid Bottlenecks and Storage Demand

    Mottl highlights regional grid constraints, agrivoltaic pilots, and the rising demand for battery storage and structural planning.

Key insights

4 takeaways
  • 01

    Depoliticized municipal consensus secures long-term renewable buildout

    Energiepark succeeded by separating renewable development from party politics and embedding local citizens into the ownership and planning process. By establishing SPVs for individual wind and biomass installations with regional stakeholders, the project aligned municipal goals with resident benefits.

  • 02

    Energy efficiency struggles against historically low relative energy prices

    Mottl notes that while household expenses for housing have surged and food shares dropped over past decades, energy costs remained relatively low, undermining incentives for passive efficiency measures. She argues for prioritizing building refurbishments to eliminate 25–30% of unnecessary demand before sizing generation.

  • 03

    Cross-border adoption stalls without tangible public exposure to renewables

    Despite identical wind regimes across the border in Slovakia, deployment remains minimal due to an entrenched nuclear and fossil lobby. Mottl argues overcoming resistance requires giving the public hands-on exposure to working renewable infrastructure, neutralizing abstract regulatory fears.

  • 04

    Electricity surplus masks deep deficits in heating and mobility decarbonization

    While Bruck an der Leitha generates more power than it consumes, its heat and transport sectors remain reliant on fossil energy. Renewables supply roughly 40% of heat demand and only 8–10% of mobility, demonstrating that net-zero territorial autonomy requires heavy electrification and cross-sectoral storage integration.

Pull quotes

5 quotes
  • But fossil energy should be the name for energy at a hole. And renewable energy should be the standard. From my point of view.
    Karin Mottl
  • He said, from the early beginning on, it has to be something that has to be out of politics. Yeah? And it has to be something where the whole municipality says, "We think that this way is the right one. And altogether, we would like to go this way.
    Karin Mottl
  • I'm pretty sure that we could use, I don't know, 25 to 30% less energy without having any reduced quality of life. I'm pretty sure, yeah?
    Karin Mottl
  • And it's six to eight times higher demand for power systems than can be actually be taken by the grid, yeah?
    Karin Mottl
  • It's possible, but it doesn't mean that it makes sense.
    Karin Mottl
Transcript394 cuesClick a timestamp to jump
  1. Daniel Schaub: Welcome to a new episode here in the Energy Bridge. Today, finally, we have the pleasure to have Karin Mottl, CEO of Energiepark. We are very happy to be here in your office here in Bruck an der Leitha. We had classes here with the program. We are going to go into this. So, yeah, today we're going to explore the collaboration between industry and academia, among many other things. So, yeah, welcome, and thank you for having us here and for being with us.
  2. Karin Mottl: From my side, a very warm welcome. Yeah, and thanks for invitation.
  3. Rahul Mishra: Thank you very much, Karin.
  4. Daniel Schaub: And also, just for the note to start, because we just reached 1,000 followers in LinkedIn.
  5. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, we
  6. Karin Mottl: So big applause.
  7. Daniel Schaub: So, big thanks to everybody.
  8. Karin Mottl: Very well done.
  9. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. And now we have, yeah, we have applause also. Yeah.
  10. Karin Mottl: That's really good.
  11. Rahul Mishra: No, applause for you as well for, because it all started here.
  12. Daniel Schaub: Exactly.
  13. Karin Mottl: For you guys.
  14. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, exactly.
  15. Karin Mottl: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
  16. Rahul Mishra: And you know, like, my first class was also in Bruck an der Leitha. I joined a bit late, so my first I think in 2024. 2023 in December I came, and that was my first class.
  17. Karin Mottl: Wonderful. I didn't ask you how you came to Energiepark and to the master program. How was that?
  18. Daniel Schaub: I mean, it was amazing. It's like the connection with the real world, with the industry, not only theoretical.
  19. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  20. Daniel Schaub: But, yeah, we're going to go into deep because it's super interesting what you have done with TU Wien.
  21. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  22. Daniel Schaub: We feel like a child of your program.
  23. Karin Mottl: Oh goodness!
  24. Daniel Schaub: Specifically because we were born because of you at the end, because your initiative. So
  25. Karin Mottl: Okay.
  26. Daniel Schaub: this episode is a
  27. Rahul Mishra: A tribute.
  28. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  29. Karin Mottl: Tribute. Oh, that's nice.
  30. Daniel Schaub: And personally, important and special for us. So, yeah, maybe to start with your journey, how did you get being CEO of Energiepark in this beautiful city? And, yeah, how it is?
  31. Karin Mottl: Mhm. Quite a long time ago. It has been. Well, my CV isn't that usual. Yeah. Because I made a school. I attended a school which was some kind of project. It wasn't a formal school. It was founded new. Yeah. The basic idea was to combine economy, ecology, and social aspects. So that was the first the first tipping point. And then I made the school, and, poo! I don't know, by Zufall, I came to a big company which started in Austria with telecommunication. So a completely different sector. But it was quite an very interesting time for eight years. But then my heart says, I would like to go back to that what I learned in school. Yeah? And so, I started studying at the age of 29 at the University for Agriculture in Vienna and Lincoln University in New Zealand. And I did a master program focusing on natural resource management, ecological engineering. Yeah? And for that, I focused on energy, renewable energy, because from my point of view, renewable energy is energy, and the other energy should have another name. But
  32. Daniel Schaub: Molecules or electrons?
  33. Karin Mottl: Yeah. But fossil energy should be the name for energy at a hole. And renewable energy should be the standard. From my point of view. Then I finished the studying at BOKU and Lincoln University, and I decided to apply for three companies.
  34. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  35. Karin Mottl: And one was Energiepark.
  36. Rahul Mishra: Oh, wow. What was your first job here?
  37. Karin Mottl: I had an interview with our president with Herbert Stava. Yeah? And we discussed about a project manager position.
  38. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  39. Karin Mottl: And then the other two companies I applied as well, invited me. Well, I started after studying, I started at another company. And I was there for a year. It was a technical office.
  40. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  41. Karin Mottl: And then after a year, Herbert called me once again and said, "Oh, the project manager job didn't work. Now we are working We are looking for a CEO. Are you interested?" And I said, "Okay.
  42. Daniel Schaub: Why not?
  43. Karin Mottl: Why not?
  44. Rahul Mishra: But in between, you also worked as an, as an HR.
  45. Karin Mottl: HR was was the company for the eight for the first eight years after school.
  46. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  47. Karin Mottl: Before I started with the university.
  48. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  49. Karin Mottl: That was in the beginning, the name was Connect Austria. Then it was One. Yeah? Now it's called 3. It's a telecommunication company, and it was the third company in Austria that relaunched telecommunication in Austria. And I started there with Oh, my personal number was 300 something. Yeah? And after eight years, it it has been really quite really wonderful, interesting, great years. But, yeah, then then I decided to to go to university. And within those 10 years, we're grown to more than 2,000 people. So it was a really really tough time. It was the beginning of telecommunication in that time. That was 1998 to 2005.
  50. Rahul Mishra: Wow.
  51. Karin Mottl: Quite long ago.
  52. Rahul Mishra: I I I also had my first job in a telecom company.
  53. Karin Mottl: Oh, that's cool!
  54. Rahul Mishra: Yeah. I was a network engineer there.
  55. Karin Mottl: Okay.
  56. Rahul Mishra: But coming back to the HR, like the whole psychology part of it, how do you apply that to your current job? Because there you have like personal constraint, and now you have grid constraint to take care of.
  57. Karin Mottl: Well, from my point of view, it there is no difference if you think about telecommunication or if you think about energy or if you think about, I don't know, coffee, you're always working with people.
  58. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  59. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  60. Karin Mottl: It's always it's always the human factor, and it's always this little things where you say, "Okay. Do I decide to go forward to do something to make the next step? Or am I, I don't know, afraid or or don't know what to do?" Yeah? So it's always the human aspect is, I would say, in each sector and in each Aspect in life. Yeah. We're working together, so it's always um there's always a a human factor inside.
  61. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, you you you mentioned at the beginning that you were also interested in the social part.
  62. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  63. Daniel Schaub: So, now that Rahul mentioned the grid constraints in energy, there is also this acceptance constraints. So, how have you worked with the local community? Because the, something that personally I'm, I was amazed when I knew about it, is your relationship with the city.
  64. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  65. Daniel Schaub: Like, super close.
  66. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  67. Daniel Schaub: So, how And you have here, in the back, plenty of wind towers.
  68. Karin Mottl: Mhm. Yeah.
  69. Daniel Schaub: So, how was the work with the community to to increase the acceptances of the
  70. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  71. Daniel Schaub: to install them?
  72. Karin Mottl: Well, the community was the beginning. Yeah. Because, our founder, Herbert Stava, he was part of the, it's some kind of municipality, council.
  73. Daniel Schaub: Advice. Council.
  74. Karin Mottl: Council. Yeah. Something like this. And, he worked there, and, he saw that the area and the region does have very high, possibilities. He said, from the early beginning on, it has to be something that has to be out of politics. Yeah? And it has to be something where the whole municipality says, "We think that this way is the right one. And altogether, we would like to go this way." Yeah? And that was the beginning in the municipality of Bruck an der Leitha, and it was always in involving the people, invited the people, inform them, give them knowledge, doing some training with the people. So it was always, working together on that on that goal of of becoming energy independent. And from my point of view, that's a really big different to to so many other organizations or or initiatives because, well, from my point of view, these are two aspects. On the one hand side, Energiepark always had two pillars. We have the pillar that we would like to inform, to train, to give knowledge, like the master program, like the research institute we have right now. We also have a technical office where we work with people out there having a look on their houses, on their households. What can they do to change to another energy system, or to have less demand in energy, yeah?
  75. Daniel Schaub: Like bottom-up approach.
  76. Karin Mottl: Yes. Yes. And on the other hand side, it was always to show that it's possible. We always worked in the in the municipality in the region. Yeah, the whole region is 30 municipalities, about 100,000 people living here. And we always worked with the region and said, "Okay, what are the possibilities? What are the, yeah, the possibilities for the region to become energy independent? What does that mean for the region, yeah? And what can be done in each municipality?" And so these two pillars always have been the basis for the for the success.
  77. Rahul Mishra: Amazing. But, talking about Energiepark, we were here in October, when you celebrated 25 years.
  78. Karin Mottl: 30 years.
  79. Rahul Mishra: 30 years. 30 years. 30 years of of Energiepark. Please walk us through the history and also, what is the current capacity of Energiepark and how are you aiding the energy transition for the region and for Austria?
  80. Karin Mottl: The beginning was biomass, because there was a big discussion, should there be a gas grid in Bruck an der Leitha, fossil gas coming from Russia or somewhere else, or shall we do something different? And the decision was to build a biomass plant to supply the municipality buildings like the kindergarten, the school, the Rathaus, and so on. And that was the first beginning. Yeah. And then we said, "Okay, it's not only heat. Yeah, it's not only biomass for the municipality. It's also aspects like power. It's also mobility, yeah?" And it didn't take that long time because we always focused on what is given here. What is given here in this municipality, in this region? Which resources are given here? And these are completely different in single regions, but in in our area here it's it's solar, so we have PV. We have solar plants. It's wind, yeah, for for the power. We do have small water plants, yeah. We do have biogas. So all the resources which are given here, we tried to use and make the the area and the the region energy independent based on that. We would say we have everything excluding geothermal. That's the only thing that could be made is something in future times. Right now, it doesn't it it's not it doesn't make sense. But maybe afterwards. I don't know. Let's see what will happen in the next 10 years.
  81. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. And, actually, this region generates quite more than they consume.
  82. Karin Mottl: Quite more. Yeah.
  83. Daniel Schaub: So, it's a interesting hub. Now I would like to go to this story.
  84. Karin Mottl: Yes.
  85. Daniel Schaub: How did you came up with the idea of creating together with Technical University of Vienna international master program in renewable?
  86. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Well, if you think about that, you you can't imagine it right now because right now it's quite common or usual or mainstream.
  87. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, because this program is how 20 years old?
  88. Rahul Mishra: 20 years old.
  89. Daniel Schaub: Very pioneer.
  90. Karin Mottl: And that was the reason why we why we founded it, because, in that time, we started in 2002 with the first ideas, we saw that there wasn't any kind of education for this. Yeah. There has been like, in the the Technical University, Elektrotechnik or something like this, but not a program which combines all aspects for renewable energy. There haven't Well, there have been in in Austria schools like HTL, something like this, but not a master program. And so we said, "Okay. When we working here in the region, we see that there are too less people who know quite a lot about renewable energy, how to make it possible, how it can be planned, how it can be, constructed and run." Then we said, "Okay, it's time for a master program, yeah?" And we knocked on the door of a university in Hungary and at the Technical University, and we said, "Well, we think it's time for a master program." And the first, the first responses were like, "Huh? Who are you? What what are you What are you doing here? What are you planning? Why do you think that you can make a master program?" And, well, we have been quite proud and said, "Well, we know how to do it in Bruck an der Leitha, so why we couldn't show it how it's possible to everybody else out there in the world?" And if you think about we are working here very local, very regional, yeah, but if we think about the global climate change, about the global energy transition, it's absolutely necessary that there will be like, like mushrooms, right? We need like mushrooms across the whole world, yeah?
  91. Daniel Schaub: But the mycelium is there.
  92. Karin Mottl: Yes!
  93. Daniel Schaub: You know that the mycelium is there.
  94. Karin Mottl: And that's the master program. Because because then it would be possible that we have it all together, and we are living on one planet. As simple as it is. Yeah. Even if we would have the whole area in all aspects of energy, energy independent based on renewable, it wouldn't make sense if we not also do it in Chile, or in India, or in Switzerland, or in Norway, or I don't know where. And that's the goal for the next I don't know how long it takes. 30 years plus, maybe.
  95. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. But, actually, you you came up with this idea 20 years ago.
  96. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  97. Daniel Schaub: And in the last IEA report in energy employment, they also are saying that we're going to have lack of professionals in energy.
  98. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  99. Daniel Schaub: So, what is your vision or
  100. Rahul Mishra: In the real energy.
  101. Karin Mottl: Real energy. In renewable. That's very simple. Do it faster.
  102. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, so do you see this lack of skills now, still?
  103. Karin Mottl: What I see is, that there are really very, enthusiastic, powerful people who would like to make this change and this transition. I think that the knowledge is given. I think the that the main constraints are, that this this transfer needs a change. And things to be changed is something that is like, [groans]. It's like that. Like, like, very difficult. It takes time. And and there are several ideas why it isn't better to do it like we have done it the last, I don't know, 50 or 100 years, and that's much easier. And we we know how it works and and how that's that that's done and so on. And from my point of view, that's the main constraint.
  104. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  105. Karin Mottl: That the the given system is something that is known,
  106. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  107. Karin Mottl: that is familiar. You know how it works. You don't have to think to do it something different or other. People are not afraid of, "Oh, how is that working? And and will that be that one that I'm familiar with or not?" And from my point of view, that's the main constraint. I think knowledge is is there.
  108. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  109. Karin Mottl: Not over the whole world, but, I would say, in knowledge is is is there, and how it could be done is also is also there.
  110. Rahul Mishra: And what what kind of people that you you have at Energiepark? What kind of skills that they they possess?
  111. Daniel Schaub: What makes you different?
  112. Karin Mottl: Very enthusiastic. Having energy in their heart.
  113. Rahul Mishra: Wow.
  114. Daniel Schaub: We can feel it.
  115. Karin Mottl: So that you want to know something new, yeah? And that you want to solve something and that you want to have a look behind and so on. So that's something which is which I would say has everybody in our in our team. Always keep in mind that the the given situation is different than we would like to have it, yeah? And it needs some time to go that way, yeah? Because if you're only enthusiastic, yeah, then it's it's maybe then it's it's quite difficult for the people itself, because then it's like like having a risk of of burnout or something like like this of of running out of of energy. So you always have to keep in mind a little bit, "Okay, it takes time."
  116. Daniel Schaub: Having said that, also we wanted to know your vision because I can imagine that that's it's a part of filter when you interview. Right? Like they are curious. They want to work in team.
  117. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  118. Daniel Schaub: And what is your vision of women participation in energy sector? Yeah.
  119. Karin Mottl: Well, they are 50% of the world.
  120. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. Yeah, but that's why, but in that energy is a super conservative sector.
  121. Karin Mottl: Oh, yeah, for sure. Mhm. Okay.
  122. Daniel Schaub: So, it's men-dominated.
  123. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Usually, when when Well, our team is I think half-half, I think.
  124. Daniel Schaub: Here in Bruck?
  125. Karin Mottl: Yeah, in Energiepark. If I think back, I would say 10 to 15 years, yeah? Then there have been on energy conferences on on different, events there have been one out of 100 people being a woman, I would say.
  126. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  127. Karin Mottl: Now, I would say it's 10 to 15 out of 100. But what I see, for example, in the master pro- program, it's also about half-half. So it only takes, I don't know, maybe 10 years, and it will be half-half in the energy sector as well.
  128. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. We, on Monday, we interviewed we made an interview with Anna Heindl from Stadt Wien. And she told us a fact that it's give hope give hope in in renewed energy.
  129. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  130. Daniel Schaub: The woman participation is higher than in the entire sector as a whole.
  131. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  132. Daniel Schaub: So, like As a whole, she said that it was like 25%
  133. Karin Mottl: Okay.
  134. Daniel Schaub: kind of, but in renewables is 35%.
  135. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  136. Daniel Schaub: Only renewables. So, it's like a it's part of the transition. We say that it's a marathon.
  137. Karin Mottl: Mhm. Yeah, that's true.
  138. Daniel Schaub: So, maybe it will take more time, but we also in all forums, we are fostering also women participation because at the end it's we need them all to
  139. Karin Mottl: For sure. For sure. And and the population is is in the world is is half-half, so it's quite easy. From my point of view, it it's not it's not the aspect of of of sex. It's always the people the the person who is doing it the best should do the job.
  140. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  141. Karin Mottl: So
  142. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  143. Rahul Mishra: Moving on to to the regional energy sector, what is happening in Bruck an der Leitha and your where you deeply involved, they're they're going to be a new electrolyzer being built in Bruck an der Leitha. How do you see the value stays in the region, and and what do you know about that project in as a whole?
  144. Karin Mottl: Yeah, it's a it's a project which is planned and and run by OMV.
  145. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  146. Karin Mottl: OMV is a big energy supplier in in Austria, and and also working over over Austria as well. And this very big hydrogen station is is will be built here in Bruck an der Leitha. And it was a decision of the municipality based on several aspects or several reasons. One of of the biggest reason is for sure that these that this plant is next to the OMV station here in in Austria because it's next to Vienna, and the hydrogen station is not that far away. So that was the main reason. And it will be the the hugest station here in in Austria and, as far as I know, in in middle Europe.
  147. Daniel Schaub: 140 MW.
  148. Karin Mottl: Yeah, so it's really really huge. Yeah.
  149. Daniel Schaub: One of the biggest.
  150. Karin Mottl: And, for sure, if we think about Austria itself, yeah, we do have or we will have the the demand for H2 as well focusing on on industry.
  151. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  152. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  153. Daniel Schaub: Which industry is here?
  154. Karin Mottl: Well, in in Austria, we do have steel industry in Linz. You know Voest?
  155. Daniel Schaub: Voestalpine.
  156. Rahul Mishra: Voestalpine.
  157. Karin Mottl: Voest? Voest maybe, you know, from. It's a very big steel company, yeah? They're sitting in Linz, yeah? For example, they are changing also the They have huge heat ovens, yeah? And they're transforming it now to running with power because when they have two of those, yeah, and in the year where they have monitoring of one of those two, yeah, the energy demand for whole Austria was lower
  158. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  159. Karin Mottl: because the one wasn't running for that time.
  160. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  161. Karin Mottl: Yeah. So, there is there is need, and there is demand, yeah? And I would say that H2 makes def- makes definitely sense for those aspects, yeah? It doesn't make sense from my point of view to use H2, for example, for I don't know, the private cars or something like this. Yeah. That doesn't make sense. But for industry aspects, it may make sense. There will be a very interesting development within the next years.
  162. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  163. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  164. Daniel Schaub: Great. And what is your personal opinion for hydrogen? Do you like it or it's a
  165. Karin Mottl: I like all forms of Okay. of renewable of renew- of a green for green hydrogen. From my point of view, we do have too less view on energy efficiency.
  166. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  167. Karin Mottl: And which kind of energy do we really need? Do we need it for If you would like to to think in pictures, like having a look on some cat pictures, is that the energy that we need, yeah? Or do we need it for, I don't know, grabbing for Bitcoins? Is that really the energy that we need, yeah? Or is it data centers and so on, yeah? Or yeah, from my point of view, No. But that's the society we are living in. I think that the first views should be to have a look on on which kind of energy do we really need, how can we I'm pretty sure that we could use, I don't know, 25 to 30% less energy without having any reduced quality of life. I'm pretty sure, yeah? If we think, what do we really need, then I would say 25 to 30%. Yeah.
  168. Daniel Schaub: I I took some years ago a energy efficiency course.
  169. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  170. Daniel Schaub: And, and I learned a lot. It's it's it has a huge potential, but somehow is not too sexy.
  171. Karin Mottl: No, you can't you can't earn money with it.
  172. Daniel Schaub: to be sold. But you save.
  173. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  174. Daniel Schaub: And how to make saving sexier than you know, like earning money? It's
  175. Karin Mottl: Yeah. It's really really very very easy because maybe that's that's an idea for one of your next podcasts, to compare prices for energy for the last, I don't know, 50 years. Energy prices are very low, and as long as those energy prices are low compared to the other increase that we have for, I don't know, building a house, for example, it's it's much more expensive than it has been 30 years ago. But energy, also energy for mobility, yeah, they are quite low compared with the with the rises over the last years. And that's one of the reasons why energy efficiency isn't given, because the the the amount that has to be paid for energy is still very low.
  176. Daniel Schaub: Exactly.
  177. Karin Mottl: Yeah?
  178. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, but you have to factor
  179. Karin Mottl: It's just If you if you spend it, it doesn't make that big difference, yeah? If you think, I think, 45 years ago, for example, we spent half of the amount that we had in as income, as monthly income, for our food
  180. Daniel Schaub: And for living. Half.
  181. Karin Mottl: Half of it.
  182. Daniel Schaub: Wow.
  183. Karin Mottl: Now we have 10 to 15%, yeah? And we spent much more for vacation, pleasure, doing, I don't know what, yeah? But we are also saying that energy is that expensive, even if the price was quite stable for the last years. So there is I would say there is need for for a concrete view. What is What is the relation?
  184. Rahul Mishra: But you It's a It's a radical thing to ask that uh, but I come from You know, like, we are quite international group right now, and with different perspective. Uh, with the energy prices being uh, being up, it will hamper the the the growing con- countries.
  185. Karin Mottl: Yeah, sure.
  186. Rahul Mishra: So maybe the Maybe the developed countries will have to pay more to
  187. Karin Mottl: There is There is I think the suggestion was from yesterday or 2 days ago, yeah, there has been a new plan for how to finance, for example, United Nations, yeah, because the aspect was, if there are developing countries who are using nature and and environment, yeah, and all of those things that are given do have results on other countries, yeah? How is How could that be balanced, yeah? And right now, the balance isn't given, yeah? But, from my point of view, it's it's so difficult to get more or less the whole world on a common view on that, yeah, and to find to find another forms of of income for overall organizations like United Nations, if there are big damages, yeah, how those could be could be paid as well, yeah?
  188. Rahul Mishra: Just one more question on on that note. Like, Energiepark also started with bunch of, let's call them rookies, who wanted to change something, right?
  189. Karin Mottl: I will tell that our president. The rookies.
  190. Rahul Mishra: I mean, when you have something radical to change, people always saw you as a rookie, but
  191. Karin Mottl: It's fine.
  192. Rahul Mishra: you are also at Ökostrom, and they they also told us that they they came out of a whole protest.
  193. Karin Mottl: Yeah, Hainburg.
  194. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  195. Karin Mottl: I think all of our our executive board members have been in Hainburg as well, I think, yeah.
  196. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. And out of the nuclear protest,
  197. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  198. Daniel Schaub: protest, yeah, as well.
  199. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  200. Daniel Schaub: That's where we were born.
  201. Karin Mottl: Yeah. That's true.
  202. Daniel Schaub: So, now moving forward to the regional model, because you are very close to Bratislava.
  203. Karin Mottl: Yeah, we are in between Vienna and Bratislava in the middle.
  204. Daniel Schaub: Actually, tomorrow we are going to the Parliament in in Bratislava with Karol.
  205. Karin Mottl: Ah, in Karol? Okay.
  206. Daniel Schaub: We are going to meet there.
  207. Karin Mottl: Please, all lovely greetings from my side to Karol.
  208. Rahul Mishra: Okay. We will.
  209. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. See you tomorrow. So, what would be the maybe an advice for the the closer cities from I mean closer to to Austria,
  210. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  211. Daniel Schaub: to develop more renewables, to accelerate energy transition following the like you, as an example. Because maybe they they don't have the same budget, right?
  212. Karin Mottl: Yeah, you're absolutely right. But, for example, in in Slovakia, it's an the people are not used to renewable energy yet. Yeah? So, the energy form that they have is fossil fuels, atomic energy, and that's what they are used to, yeah? So right now, it's much easier to say we expand the atomic energy, for example, yeah, and do not build renewable energy because the people are used to. Yeah? So from my point of view as an as an advice, I would say first have a look what kind of renewable energy sources do you have within your municipality, region, country, yeah? And then, let the people feel the energy.
  213. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  214. Karin Mottl: Yeah? Bring them to to areas where there is renewable energy given, yeah, also within their their own country, for example like, I don't know, a a water plant, for example, yeah? So something that you can feel the energy, and then then the the fear of the people is less to to do something new. Yeah? So I would I would suggest to on the one hand side have a look, what what is given within my country, yeah? And then, make the people feel the the renewable energy. Yeah.
  215. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, because Bratislava is just next to it,
  216. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Yeah.
  217. Daniel Schaub: with the same winds.
  218. Karin Mottl: Yeah, absolutely. And it's like there is the border, and there's nothing, yeah? And it's incredible. We've worked for for Slovakian projects every years, yeah, and and up to now it hasn't been possible to to really create bigger plants. We do have a PV plant in in Slovakia. There is up to now,
  219. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  220. Karin Mottl: it's not the right time.
  221. Daniel Schaub: And which has been the biggest struggles or bottlenecks to to make them possible?
  222. Karin Mottl: I would say lobbying of atomic energy.
  223. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  224. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  225. Karin Mottl: As easy as it is.
  226. Rahul Mishra: That's why we need a bridge so that they can they can learn. They can learn better.
  227. Karin Mottl: That's And and and Austria, and Bruck an der Leitha and Vienna could be the role model. I mean, they're they have been a lot of things that is happening over here, and it should be appreciated more.
  228. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  229. Rahul Mishra: Yeah. But having said that, in in in the whole Central and Eastern Europe, also the regional countries, the green transition, as you already mentioned it, there's a there's atomic lobby, there's a fossil lobby. They see green transformation as a as a cost, imposed by Brussels. How how do you think that can be changed into like thinking that is something that they have to do, not as a cost, but as a as a regional pride? Like, you involve the community and it became a it became a community-wide project. So, how's that as an experience and sharing learning?
  230. Karin Mottl: Well, the easiest way would be that the energy prices are different. That would be the easiest way, but it's not the way that will come. From my point of view. Also, there is the CO2 certificates, which are growing within the next years, yeah? But, from my point of view, it's it's like when people feel what are the results of using fossil fuels and fossil energy, and these can already be be seen and and felt by the people, for example, if there are bigger floods or something like that. Also in in middle Europe are also extreme heat periods, yeah? That's also a result. From my point of view, it will take a few years, yeah, but it's a question of not that it will be, it's just a question of when it will be.
  231. Daniel Schaub: Well, now moving forward thinking in future.
  232. Karin Mottl: Oh, yeah.
  233. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. Because we recently also had a a a conversation with Verbund X that they are pushing innovation from inside. So, it's the feeling that in energy transition, innovation is super needed because technology is advancing very fast, faster than legal framework, by the way.
  234. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  235. Daniel Schaub: So, now here in in Energiepark, you have this innovation program.
  236. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  237. Daniel Schaub: So, what are you doing to foster it, and how does it work, how people from the community can participate?
  238. Karin Mottl: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
  239. Daniel Schaub: How is it going?
  240. Karin Mottl: It's the Energiepark Forschungsstiftung, yeah, and we founded it 3 years ago, yeah? So, we are in the in the third year right now. The basic idea was to support not only young people. It can also be somebody who is, I don't know, 70 years old, yeah, so it's not a question of of age. It's a question of how young you are in in your mind. But to support people that have cool ideas, like maybe ideas which are on the first view like, "Uh? What?" Something like this. But somehow it's it's it's interesting, yeah? Also to invite people to have have a look on on other views, on aspects, yeah? And it's called LIMES. That's a price we are offering each year, yeah? And people are highly invited to to apply for LIMES. It's, as I said, an annual program, yeah? And you can apply for that, and then you if you are either the winner or place two or three, you will get pretty high prize money, yeah? And, in addition, you'll get a one year mentoring program.
  241. Daniel Schaub: Ah, that's good.
  242. Karin Mottl: Yeah? So within the last 30 years, we have a really huge network, yeah? We know really a lot of people, either in in Austria, but also across the world, also with the with alumni from the master program for the last 20 years. So there is a really big network which is working together, yeah? And people will be helped within this network, yeah? So, if there is a great, new, innovative idea, yeah, just apply for LIMES.
  243. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. Is it a regional program?
  244. Karin Mottl: It's a a regional program. We founded it on our own, yeah, and the focus is to have energy solutions for the area we're living in. Because we would like to to realize projects, yeah? It's it's One one aspect is that there is a good idea. I think there will be really good ideas across the world, yeah? But we are acting within this area and this region. And if you think about LIMES and make it possible that there are also can be, for example, something built, yeah, then you need also a supported series field, yeah, that there is an interconnection with government and and regulations, and so on. And we couldn't offer that, for example, I don't know, in Canada or something like that. We can offer it here, yeah? And that's why we are looking for solutions which are working here in Austria.
  245. Rahul Mishra: And you already have the innovation program, so the the it's a it's a research foundation.
  246. Karin Mottl: Right.
  247. Rahul Mishra: And so the the primary aim, of course, is to to foster innovation,
  248. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  249. Rahul Mishra: but also to do some research projects, or just for the innovation part?
  250. Karin Mottl: It's It's mainly for the innovation part, yeah, because, that's that's one of the most difficult things for us. Usually, we do have so many ideas and so many aspects that could be interesting or nice or great or something. But the day still has 24 hours, and it's like And that's the reason why we said, "Yeah, for sure for sure, Forschungsstiftung should really have a look on on innovation
  251. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  252. Karin Mottl: and new ideas for the world."
  253. Daniel Schaub: The research is a foundation? It's a
  254. Karin Mottl: It's a In in Austria, it's called gemeinnützige Forschungsstiftung.
  255. Daniel Schaub: Okay, sure.
  256. Rahul Mishra: Like Like NGO?
  257. Karin Mottl: No, it's something that, all that we are doing within this Forschungsstiftung has to has a good influence on society.
  258. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  259. Karin Mottl: A little bit like this.
  260. Rahul Mishra: And and what about Energiepark? Is it Is it uh, just out of curiosity, if it is for because it came out of a from a from a protest.
  261. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  262. Rahul Mishra: So, how's the structure of Energiepark? Is it also for the community, or is for profit, or
  263. Karin Mottl: Well, the Energiepark, within those 30 years, we we have different projects. Like, we focused on biomass. We focused on biogas, on heat, on on wind, on water plants, and so on. And, all of those plants are single companies, yeah, because if you have, I don't know, a wind park in Hundsheim, yeah, that's one of the municipalities, then it's a single it's a single aspect because it has a special financing. It has a special company which where the where the windmills came from. It has special allowances, for example, for nature, and so on, yeah? So, each of those projects are single companies, yeah? And, for each company, there are company owners which are coming from the region.
  264. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  265. Karin Mottl: Yeah? So, it's all for for and with the people coming here from the from the region.
  266. Rahul Mishra: And there's already around 240 MW of assets that Energiepark has?
  267. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  268. Rahul Mishra: Are you trying to realize new projects, or
  269. Karin Mottl: For sure. Yes, we
  270. Daniel Schaub: What is the pipeline?
  271. Karin Mottl: We haven't we haven't the energy independence in the region, we didn't have it yet. We have it for power. Yeah? We were producing much more power than we need within the the area, also including, I don't know, the airport, for example, at Schwechat. So there is much higher production for power, yeah? But, for example, for my nose is just a little bit running, for heat, right now we do have about 40%, yeah, which is based on renewables. And for mobility, it's, I think, 8 to 10%, yeah? So there's still quite a lot to do, yeah? From our point of view, there will be a change, a transition to the energy source of power. There will be this transition. We are already in, yeah? So, for sure, there have to be more more projects, because, up to now, we're still an an energy importer, not not expanding energy to to the countries around.
  272. Daniel Schaub: Okay. So, you have mainly assets in wind and biomass?
  273. Karin Mottl: Right, that's the main The main If you if you are focusing on on the power, Yeah. on on, yeah, it's mainly wind. And and yeah, wind is is definitely the the most, yeah?
  274. Daniel Schaub: It's definitely. Yeah.
  275. Karin Mottl: For sure.
  276. Daniel Schaub: Now is the Now the PV in the region is is growing.
  277. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Yeah.
  278. Daniel Schaub: Have you seen lately changes in the grid operation? Maybe you have to turn off windmills more often now, or what are the grid constraints in the region?
  279. Karin Mottl: The constraints Well, if we let go one step back because, if you think about PV, we're always having a look on what can be new technologies or new ways and and and sources of how the energy can be produced. And, for example, there is a so-called Leuchtturm project from the Austrian Climate and Energy Fund, which is called Sonnenfeld like sun field, yeah? And it's a combination of PV and agricultural area, and area for nature conservation, yeah? So you can have a field that can also be used for growing crops, yeah? But, in addition, the sun energy can be consumed as well, yeah? So that's something that we focus on, yeah? But if you think about the constraints, we do have the the problem that the grid constraints are there, yeah? And, for sure, the renewables aren't always producing at a time when energy is needed, yeah? So the aspects we the whole area looks right now also in in in Lower Austria is for storage systems, yeah? And it's six to eight times higher demand for power systems than can be actually be taken by the grid, yeah? So there would be there's a big demand for either have more decentralized systems, so where are the places where energy is needed, yeah, where are the places where energy is can be produced, yeah? And to to make to bring that more into a balance.
  280. Daniel Schaub: Okay. So that's the following question. If Energiepark, it's thinking about flexibility and to install more BESS, because now is a is a trend kind of to to install batteries. So,
  281. Karin Mottl: For sure. For sure. Yeah.
  282. Daniel Schaub: are you thinking about it in the near future?
  283. Karin Mottl: Well, right now we do have an energy structural planning, yeah, because if you think across Austria, yeah, energy is is needed across Austria in almost each place, yeah?
  284. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  285. Karin Mottl: The awareness and and the possibility for renewable energy is also given on each place, more or less, yeah? You can either, on the one hand side, have a look how can we need less energy, or how can we cover that that demand for with renewable energy, but the different Bundesländer, so like
  286. Daniel Schaub: Regions.
  287. Karin Mottl: states, or, yeah, states, vary very different how they use the renewable sources they have within their state, yeah? So, that's something that is it's, from my point of view, it's not also only the grid, yeah? It's also this this balance of energy producing and demanding over the country.
  288. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. I I wanted to go into the big umbrella of European Commission with the Green Deal.
  289. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  290. Daniel Schaub: But you are from the local perspective.
  291. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  292. Daniel Schaub: How does it work, the Green Deal with municipalities or in a regional level? Does it help?
  293. Karin Mottl: I I would say we need both, for sure. Sometimes it's it's a boost if you think about municipalities itself, yeah, because municipalities, they have that big amount of tasks that they have to do, yeah? They have to think about kindergarten, they have to think about older people, they have to think about infrastructure and the street, and I don't know, and for that, a Green Deal like the RED III, it's a it's a regulation, they are some kind of, giving a little push to municipalities that they have also have to look on their own buildings and and structure. So, that helps.
  294. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  295. Rahul Mishra: And is it a a central subject, or it comes down to a municipality, or
  296. Karin Mottl: It comes down to a municipality as well, yeah? So, a municipality, for example, Bruck an der Leitha has a plan of in 2030, I have to reduce my energy demand for this. I would say, if if there is a municipality which has both, like somebody who is thinking of what can be done within our own municipality as well as those regulations coming from outside, then then it it works.
  297. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  298. Rahul Mishra: Amazing. So, we get to our last round.
  299. Karin Mottl: Oh!
  300. Rahul Mishra: We Where we call Where we call it a quick fire. We just introduced it. If you had €1 billion
  301. Karin Mottl: 1 billion? Wow!
  302. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  303. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, because 100 million was not too much.
  304. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, we were asking for 100 million, and then we thought like, let's just increase it. Yeah. We
  305. Karin Mottl: I can't I can't imagine.
  306. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, we're We're watching too much of Trump, so. So, what would you do with that money to accelerate energy transition in in in this region and within Austria, as a whole?
  307. Karin Mottl: I would, refurbished old buildings
  308. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  309. Karin Mottl: that we need less energy.
  310. Daniel Schaub: Passive. Yeah. Energy efficiency.
  311. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  312. Rahul Mishra: Wow. Actually, it's it's it's in some way uh, good. Good thought. Anna was also mentioning about it.
  313. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, also. Uh, yeah, like a like an advice for the region, to start with passive measures, and then to clean and to reduce. But first, to reduce, and then clean.
  314. Karin Mottl: First to reduce, and then and then use renewable energy.
  315. Daniel Schaub: I mean, if you have the budget, you do it, for sure. But
  316. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  317. Daniel Schaub: And other question. If when you have a a local problem or conflict,
  318. Karin Mottl: Okay.
  319. Daniel Schaub: do you prefer to to invite a good engineer to solve it, or you invite the mayor to intervene?
  320. Karin Mottl: I would like to invite the engineer who is the mayor right now. Isn't that?
  321. Daniel Schaub: Ah, really? The mayor is an engineer?
  322. Karin Mottl: Some of our mayors are engineers as well, but, well, I would invite the person who is able to to see the demand of the people.
  323. Daniel Schaub: So
  324. Karin Mottl: Even if either it's the engineer or the or the mayor, but the one who is who who can see the the demand of the people, yeah.
  325. Daniel Schaub: Okay. So, when you hire someone, do you prefer a perfect curriculum or a local network?
  326. Karin Mottl: Local network. Yeah.
  327. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  328. Karin Mottl: Yeah. You can learn everything more or less, yeah?
  329. Rahul Mishra: And you have a bit of an international background as well. You went to New Zealand, and and there was a lot of nature there. And also, Austria has and and also hill, right? So, Austria has the same. What do you think that Austrians still need to learn about renewable energy? They they are very educated, I would say, like one of the most educated people about renewable energy in Austria, but there's still something to learn more.
  330. Karin Mottl: Just to go for it.
  331. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  332. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Because, I think there are quite a lot of people who know, yeah, and and or have an idea, or having, I don't know, a a a suggestion for something, yeah? But somehow don't come into action, yeah? And I would say that it Just do it. Yeah.
  333. Daniel Schaub: Okay. And is it possible the 100% autonomy for the region including heating, or is more a fantasy, and we can get 80, 90?
  334. Karin Mottl: It's possible, but it doesn't mean that it makes sense. Before, we discussed a little bit about H2, yeah? So, I would say that in in some aspects it makes sense to use H2, in in many other aspects it doesn't make sense, yeah? And I think that's the same for for heating, yeah? I think everything that you think it has to be a 100% for sure, and in in in any case, that that's not nature, yeah? Nature is always a little bit flexible and and
  335. Daniel Schaub: Like a bamboo.
  336. Karin Mottl: like, yeah, yeah.
  337. Daniel Schaub: Like bamboo, that is strong, but flexible.
  338. Karin Mottl: Yeah. Yeah. And and I would say it's like like a nature where yes, going to that direction, yeah, but not with that very strong call, "It has to be, for sure." Then it wouldn't be the best solution, I think.
  339. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. Another question, it's regarding education. What How do you envision the future in education in general?
  340. Karin Mottl: Mhm.
  341. Daniel Schaub: And how do you see the future of the renewable master program now that is 20 years old? Maybe it's another stage.
  342. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  343. Daniel Schaub: How do you see the future?
  344. Karin Mottl: What we see within the master program is is is is some kind of success, because it's already part of some regular studies. So, that's something that is great, yeah, because if you're doing it as in a regular study, there will be more people who are used to it, yeah? What we'll see is what we looking right now next week, we think about having the knowledge of how the energy system works, yeah, already in school, yeah, because it's something that we Everybody of us needs energy each day, yeah? And people often do not know how it works in general, yeah? So, we think about bringing that knowledge also in an additional layer in in school education. We have, for example, also like summer schools, yeah, for younger people, yeah, because it makes sense to have this this energy aspect and this aspect of renewable energy across different ages, yeah? So, for sure, the the master program for renewable energy will exist for the next, I don't know, years, yeah? But it will be different in the form of how the the education and the knowledge will be given, because 20 years ago it was like having having somebody staying in front and telling you how it works.
  345. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  346. Karin Mottl: That was 20 years ago.
  347. Daniel Schaub: And memorized.
  348. Karin Mottl: Yeah. And now it's different, because it's it's some kind of interaction, it's some kind of case studies. We are driving out there, seeing plants, going in interaction with people, what worked, what didn't work. Nobody in in there is no book where is written what what didn't work, yeah? But that's important for you if you think about working in that in that area, that you know what didn't work by somebody else, because you don't have to repeat that that mistake once again.
  349. Daniel Schaub: Mhm. Now, what are What is your feeling with AI?
  350. Karin Mottl: AI is great. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
  351. Daniel Schaub: How do you How do you see the future?
  352. Karin Mottl: It's like Well, there is a really nice comparison with the change from horses to cars, like Kutschen. You know the the The carts?
  353. Karin Mottl: I don't know how The chariot. It's it's In front, you have a horse, and in back, you're sitting there and doing like Okay, okay. Yeah? And then there was this transformation from those to cars. And in the beginning, it was like, "Oh my goodness, cars, they are so dangerous. And they're driving that fast, and [gasps]." And within a very short time, there was this transaction or transition to cars. And from my point of view, AI could be a game changer in doing things different as long as we use it for having a higher quality of life, so using the time not to be more in, I don't know, digital, social media, and and and and so on, but maybe it brings us the time to get in the interaction once again, and that would be great.
  354. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, after some statements in Davos, in the World Economic Forum, they made some examples that taking yours, it's now not only a car, but it's a car that can make decisions by itself with AI agents.
  355. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  356. Daniel Schaub: So now it's like a
  357. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  358. Daniel Schaub: from
  359. Karin Mottl: That's true. Let's see what happened. I don't know. But usually usually, innovation and and new aspects has been something where people gain from it, in general, yeah? For sure, there will be professions which may will not be exist anymore. Yeah, that will be, but that's that's usual life. Yeah, that's change in life.
  360. Rahul Mishra: For renewable energy, at least, it's it's way good because
  361. Karin Mottl: I think yes.
  362. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, for flexibility, for for all those constraints.
  363. Daniel Schaub: Forecast.
  364. Karin Mottl: Yeah, that makes definitely sense.
  365. Rahul Mishra: Yeah. On the closing note, Karin, what do you What's your advice for the new professionals? Of course, like there will be a lot of professionals like us who came who came to this place and got groomed and learned a lot, but, and there will be a lot more coming. What What advice that you give to the new professionals in the energy sector?
  366. Karin Mottl: Think about a great idea, and then realize it.
  367. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  368. Karin Mottl: I think that would be the advice. Like you. Yeah? You You founded the Energy Bridge, yeah? And it was a great and fantastic thing, yeah? And I'm pretty sure in I don't know, 5 to 10 years, maybe, I will invite you to have a podcast with me
  369. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  370. Karin Mottl: and tell about what happened in the Energy Bridge within the last 10 years. That would be great.
  371. Daniel Schaub: Amazing. Actually,
  372. Rahul Mishra: That would be the goal.
  373. Daniel Schaub: Actually, it's super symbolic that I just realized that 1 year ago, we interviewed Professor Haas.
  374. Karin Mottl: Mhm. Okay.
  375. Daniel Schaub: And it was the first episode. And now with you, 1 year later, it's a Yeah, super symbolic.
  376. Rahul Mishra: Full circle.
  377. Karin Mottl: And it's really incredible if you think you started 1 year ago. I think this podcast is number I don't know.
  378. Daniel Schaub: 40.
  379. Karin Mottl: 40. So, that's almost each each week within that year.
  380. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  381. Karin Mottl: So, very well done. Really great.
  382. Rahul Mishra: Thank you. Thank you very much.
  383. Daniel Schaub: And more to come.
  384. Rahul Mishra: I could say that also later, but thank you for all the support for the forums, of course, and also for the podcast.
  385. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  386. Rahul Mishra: Thank you very much, Karin.
  387. Karin Mottl: Thank you so much for
  388. Daniel Schaub: Thank you very much, and thanks to the community for watching the episode until the end. And stay tuned for future interviews
  389. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  390. Daniel Schaub: with amazing people.
  391. Karin Mottl: Yeah.
  392. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. So, see you in the next.
  393. Karin Mottl: Bye-bye.
  394. Rahul Mishra: Thank you. Bye-bye.