S1E02

Tecloman's Approach to Energy Storage Solutions with Thomas Sascha - InterSolar Ep- 2

with Thomas Sascha· Techloman· 50m

TL;DR

Techloman emphasizes integrated battery storage solutions for Europe's energy transition.

Synopsis

Thomas Sascha discusses Techloman's approach to energy storage, highlighting the importance of turnkey solutions in the European market. He emphasizes the need for integrated systems that combine batteries, inverters, and energy management software to address the unique challenges of energy storage in Europe.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 8

25 GW
Annual PV installation target
€20
Energy cost from grid
€0.04
Cost per kWh with PV
€0.08
Cost per kWh with storage
10 MW
Recent order from Vin Energy
1 GW
Spain's installed storage capacity
8,000
Battery cycle lifespan
70%
Lithium battery recycling rate

Topics

5 tags

BESS economicsturnkey solutionsenergy managementgrid stabilityagricultural applications

Stats

Duration: 50m
Words: 8.1k
Questions: 32

Timeline

8 chapters

Introduction
Introduction of Thomas Sascha, country manager for Techloman.
Career Background
Sascha discusses his background in the semiconductor and PV markets.
Market Evolution
Discussion on the evolution of the PV market and price reductions.
Techloman's Solutions
Overview of Techloman's turnkey solutions and battery technology.
Customer Base
Description of Techloman's diverse customer base across Europe.
Recent Projects
Sascha shares recent successful projects in Europe.
Grid Stability Challenges
Discussion on grid stability issues in Spain and Germany.
Future of Battery Technology
Sascha discusses future trends in battery technology and recycling.

Key insights

4 takeaways

01
Integrated solutions are essential
Techloman's approach emphasizes the integration of batteries, inverters, and software for effective energy storage.
02
Storage capacity needs to grow
Europe requires significant increases in storage capacity to stabilize the grid and support renewable energy.
03
Agriculture is a key market
Farmers are adopting battery storage solutions due to their energy needs and available infrastructure.
04
Recycling rates are improving
Current lithium battery recycling rates are around 70%, with expectations to reach 90% in the future.

Transcript1235 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

Welcome community. Today we have our
distinguished guest Sasha Mitting. He's
the country manager for Techman in
Germany and doing everything pan
Europe. We are we are very excited
because we are in Munich in
Techlamman's headquarter for Europe for
the first time and we are meeting
Tatcha. we will get to know him up
personal and also get to know about
Techlan solution and why battery storage
are so important. Now let's get started.
Welcome.
Welcome. Thank you very much for the
short introduction. yes of course
I'm in Techloman responsible for the
European sales.
I'm the director of European sales
and I'm also director of strategic
business development for the global
market for Titum
and so we also made a joint venture
two years ago with an Morocco company.
So and I was also responsible then for
doing this and yes what I was what I
was doing. So I think I have a long long
history in the PV market and
could we start from the really
beginning because it's
the journey has been amazing. So we
would like to know at the beginning how
you started, how you got into
the energy field.
The energy field, what you studied,
where
it's a long long story.
Perfect. We have
I started originally in the
semiconductor market. So
I was starting with some companies who
were producing equipment for the
semiconductor market for producing
permit
microchips for unit and for Intel
I think was 200 2003 one and from 1995
until 2003.
So it was it was typical
manufacturing companies for
semiconductor industry. Wow. When it was
starting almost the renewable
energy field.
Yeah. It was starting in the in the
field of 2002 2003 because then I was
working for center term one of the
biggest supplier for equipment for the
photo.
Where were you based
in Germany?
In Germany. You started here.
I started here in Germany. Yeah. Okay.
And so this was an opportunity for
learning much more about all the PV
market because with this company we had
the first equipment for the
semiconductor market and then later on
we learned that we can use high
temperature fusion equipment also for
the PV market. So for producing on the
end solar cells for Q cells for other
big big Chinese suppliers.
Okay.
And later on I changed to United States.
So I established my own company in
United States for producing interal
grade silicon for the PV market. So we
were founded with venture capitals in
Silicon Valley and so we got another
whatever 80 80 million euro for
producing a special silicon for the PV
market. Later on we changed from from a
poly crystalline again to mono
crystalline.
So then we changed this process and we
sold the company. Well, so that was to
manufacture PV solar panels in the US.
It was manufacturing solar grade basic
materials
for later producing of solar panels.
Okay. So when the market was just
starting
when the market was starting
and you have been in the manufacturing
of solar PV from
way long ago. How how how did
20204 2005?
Wow. But it's been a long journey since
then when the people were even thinking
about that it could be applicable to
such a large scale. But how have you
seen the journey so far in terms of
manufacturing the scale of it and the
price being dropped so much? Of course,
when you have a economic of scale, the
price goes down. But yeah,
it was terrible because, the
beginning of the market was a fantastic
spot market opportunity. So, it was
necessary to spend whatever 300 per
kilo kilogram of PV basic materials. So,
it's dropped down the last 20 years
until up to 5% of the original price.
So, it's it's was a huge difference.
So any any year it was a challenge to
fulfill requirements from from the big
market on the end I was then changing
then in 2014 2015 in the storage
market
and to develop together with big
companies like Uniki's sodium sulfur
batteries for the storage market and
then I changed them over to Hopek
battery supplier for lead acid
batteries. So they established that also
a daughter company or a sister
company in Tillion was producing all the
big storage system or commercialized
storage system for the international
global market. 2000 2023 on January I
I changed to tech.
Okay. So it was a very very good
opportunity because I was scrapping
around the whole world about good
suppliers who can provide Turkey
solution to the market
and this was an essential option because
Ticklman is one of not so much
company in the world. They came not only
from the battery system. So they were
starting 30 years ago over in the switch
gear business in the rectifier business
in the PC PCS system industry and then
later on they developed their own
ferofers fat battery cells by their own
and this was very very interesting for
me to help this company to establish the
market all in Europe
and if you could tell us all the
solutions that Techlamman has right now.
Yeah, Telman is a typical turnkey
solution provider. So we are coming from
the basics. We're coming from producing
battery cells 75 amp hour cells by our
own. So we learned how important is to
have the right basic materials from the
anode material from the cathode material
and all the separator and we didn't
start with NMC. We only started with LFP
with ferohos technology and it's a
better technology because it's not so
it's not so dangerous. It cannot burn so
much like like NMC technology and it was
a starting opportunity although for
techman in this business and the
big issue is that we can provide as a
vertically integrated company from the
battery modules together with PCI system
together with transformer systems
together with battery management
software and with energy management
software both of all these opportunities
on our side and this is an it is a
unique selling point for entering the
market with turnkey solutions. So we are
not a typical battery supplier. They're
only supplying battery and selling to
Europe or to the global market. We would
like to sell solutions for applications
and this is necessary in Europe because
the applications in Europe are different
to the applications for instance in Asia
and that gives you the flexibility to
innovate as well. Right? If you are from
the really beginning in the sales you
are making era how do you call it the
R&D no
R&D yeah
research and development
yeah research and development
so we have we have many many
manufacturing areas in China so we
have around 70, 000 square meter
production area with fully automated
lines with robots coming from Germany
for example from KUKA we have around
1, 300 people working for us and over 165
five people only in R&D.
So this is essentially opportunity.
at the moment we're opening some service
centers over here in Europe and Germany
because we thinking that we need
absolutely to provide so right service
to the client for 10 15 years long. So
this is also an issue that not all other
competitions are doing this. So this is
essentially work from our side and we
have the expertise because of so many
people that are working only for R&D.
And if you could tell us a bit more
about like you're based in Europe now
and the manufacturing is done in China
and so how who are your customers and
how does the whole value chain work?
Yeah, the customers are different kind
of business related
things because we have customers
customers for commercialized systems for
industrial people we have utility
clients we have greed companies of
course though it's a broad range of
clients international wise in the whole
Europe
but it's a special it's a special
challenge because every of these
country has own greed nodes So we have
to provide the right certifications and
as you can see right now we are ranked
as a tier one supplier for Bloomberg. So
it's all the very special and necessary
ranking opportunities if you're
talking to banks to credit lines to
institutional investors. Everybody would
like to see what is the quality of the
company because we are new in Europe
and we are not existing 20 years in
Europe though it's necessary to have
such as ranking of quality and Bloomberg
is doing this like they're doing this
all for the PV market. So this helps us
for entering the market more easier.
Okay. Just thinking about the
advantage of being in all the supply
chain located in China mainly,
would you say that is a huge advantage
also in terms of critical materials for
example to produce because two
weeks ago there was a conference in
London with a
international energy agency and they
talk about energy security. So one of
the big topics was critical
materials. How do you see this topic in
the storage manufact?
Yeah, we are not using critical
materials because they coming maybe them
from the Urugu region or something like
this. So we are producing only this
materials basic materials are coming
from right regions and all our batteries
manufactured in China are only
manufactured by 100% green energy. So
this is a very very important topic.
it's also necessary because of
opportunity for 2026 or 2027 to start
additional taxes
carbon model taxes and in Europe. So
then it's related to how you producing
your materials
all the materials produced 100% free of
CO2 of course and we only using green
energy in our headquarter. So it's very
very important and it's an issue that
we have to do this. So is this
virtually? you have PPAs with
renewable
power plants.
Yeah. Yeah, we have PPAs with renewable
power plants and I thought that's that's
an issue that is given as a
certification that we're producing this
100% free only green. That's very very
important.
I didn't know it's a pro.
And Fashia if you could tell us a bit
more about successful storage that
you already have in Europe now. Yeah, we
started we started some years ago in
Europe especially in the Belgium and
Netherlands market and I think for
this market this was a special
opportunity to install agriculture farms
commercialized installations like 200
kilowatt up to 500 600 kilowatt hour
storage system
for special solution in agriculture
farms or in small companies and yeah
we sold around three to 400 system in
Belgium, Netherlands and over in UK and
in Ireland. So the last months we sold
all the 32 storage system commercial
systems to Ireland.
Yeah.
This and this week we got the 10
megawatt order from from Vin Energy. So
from wind energy
from wind energy for also making
grid support of course
we got orders in Hungaria for 10
megawatt and so we are working also in
Germany for many many big opportunities
like big installations pass system
installations
and your solution is about providing
the storage solution and then the
installation operation and maintenance
goes to the other party or how does it
work?
We are working in Europe sometimes as
partner they can making the all the EPC
work.
Yeah,
of course on the beginning with our
people. So we are assisting all of the
EPC partners and we train the EPC
partners. So we have all the training
academy
integrated in techma that we are giving
all the partners the first training that
they are they have the option then later
on to make the support. So we are
guaranteeing our suppliers in minimum 10
years support.
Yeah.
And over 25 or 24 hours support for
big clients and also remote diagnostic
opportunities the availability
guarantee
and this is all the necessary and it's a
it's typical for different kind of
clients. So we have commercial
customers that working in commercial
companies, smaller companies, industrial
companies. They have huge industrial
industrial buildings or companies they
need a huge of energy and they would
like to provide a cheaper energy. So
this is they would like to integrate PV
on their roofs because they need cheaper
energy because the problem in Germany is
our competition worldwide and this
problem we curious about too high energy
costs how you can reduce the energy
costs
and energy cost you can reduce if
integrating PV for example and then you
can produce a kilowatt hour price for
around seven or eight cents so then it's
essentially difference as to pay for the
grid companies 20 cents
in the commercial industrial industry.
And on the end, you can al have another
opportunities to make peak shaving, to
make peak shifting, to have all the
power factor compensation opportunities
with the energy storage. And on the
other hand side, we have the huge
transmission of grid companies. So we're
making all the greed support.
Yeah. Services and
greed services. Of course, it's
necessary because we have too much
fluctuating energy because energy is
coming not only from from novel power
plants are coming then from the solar
they're coming from the wind onshore
offshore and this is not stable energy
and the okay so we can start to go into
the topic this last weeks which was the
blackout in Spain. Do you think it's
related with this not continuous
like variable
renewable energy in the big system? How
the how it impact in the energy
system and how storage plays a role
there? Yeah, it was it was it was an
impact produced by Spain and by
ourselves of France
and so I think Spain has
installed around 25 gawatt PV panels.
And PV power. So it's a huge amount of
PV they installed and but they installed
around one gawatt only storage system
and from this storage system from this
one gawatt only 50 or 100 megawatt have
a black start capability. So this is
can you tell us what black capability
means
that this means if the grid is
collapsing and this was a problem in
Spain. so normally you can have okay
then we're changing from the normal grid
to PV because the PV parks over in Spain
are connected to some industrial
companies to hotels to hospitals. But
the problem is if the grid is collapsing
it takes only milliseconds.
And if you don't can start your own grid
with the storage system in such as
milliseconds the grid is collapsing. So
then you it's not starting. So you need
the right combination of energy storage
system with the right inverter systems
to can start from their own a new grid
and this name is black start capability.
So then it's an option but Spain doesn't
have this Germany have this. So we
installed many many many gigawatt
hour systems and storage system with
black start capabilities and then it's
an option if a grid is collapsing
decentralized then the storage can start
their own grid in the right time base in
20 milliseconds for example and then the
grid is not stopping is not collapsing
it's a grid forming also there
yeah it's a grid forming so we have this
opportunity Spain they were thinking we
only would like to install in PV This
gives us a huge green energy and this is
enough. But it's not enough. The people
are learning this because the problem is
we also have over capacity or too much
low capacity in Germany. Last year in
November we had the troubles in Germany
because we also had problems because the
sun was not shining the wind was not
going on and the energy companies was
was trying to catch energy from whom?
Because the most of the energy over in
Germany came from renewables..
The same is in Spain. Every other
country would like to make 50 to 80% in
the future of green energy. But then
this problem occurs in Germany last
last November was a big problem. So the
energy company were trying to catch
green energy from storage suppliers or
from storage owners from different of
IPs and this was an opportunity. they
spend so much money for kilowatt hour
for whatever 30 euros cents or 40 euros
cents for grabbing this grid from
storage and if they have an over
capacity of course they will spend this
capacity in storage system. So this is
empower trading and this is a huge
opportunity here in Europe that you can
make all the big money for power trading
arbitrage diad and also purl
regulation primary and secondary control
and also yesterday we were talking
with Hbert Fner from IEA and he told us
that the new solutions are for
any new green solution that you're
having it has to come with battery
storage especially talking about the PV
and also in the depth developing if I
may say countries like the central and
eastern European countries which was
relying on the fossil fuel for a very
long time and now they are trying to
get to the green energy battery from PV
why it gets way more way more important
for us to think about battery storage
now
it's a typical it's a typical
realization I was end of last
year beginning of this here in Romania,
in Hungaria, in Czech Republic and they
have the same problem all as we have in
Germany
because European Union announced five
years ago that they would like to create
the penduropean greed
and the penduropean greed is to sharing
all the different kind of energies. If
there is a country with too much
energy, they can bring it to the others
if they have not enough energy. But in
the moment we have too much renewable
energy from wind from sun and it's not
stable. So how you can give a stable
energy and then France alo interrupted
this this restriction from the
European Union because France was
thinking we can give you a stable energy
from our nuclear plant. M.
So they were starting the latest
state-of-the-art nuclear plant in France
2 years ago. But at the moment it's too
expensive.
Yeah.
So they spended 10 times more as it was
originally planned. So the production
costs of this nuclear power plant in
France. The latest state-of-the-art is
around 12 to 13 cents. It's too
expensive. So the European Union stopped
this opportunity to bring nuclear power
in the grid because nobody can pay it
for..
So then it's necessary to came back to
renewable energy again. And then we have
these troubles too much power in the
noon time because all of these countries
in Europe having then in noon time too
much PV power
on the evening of course and in the
night they don't have enough energy for
companies that working 24 hours or for
private homes or for smaller companies
they're working until 8:00 in the
evening. So from whom come this energy?
So then we need storage system. It's for
industrial solution. They will be
independent from power and reducing the
energy costs is from the grid companies
for making grid support to giving them
in the grid the power if if the grid
has not enough power. You correct from
the grid if the over capacity and then
you can make a stable a stable
infrastructure..
And the problem is that the
electrification infrastructure in Europe
it's not good enough. So we have to
build it again. But it takes 20 years
long. So how we can wait how we can wait
20 years long. And this is this is an
opportunity that we're losing so much
money. If you have such a problem as in
Spain they lost billions only for two
days. They lost billions in the economy.
And if you compare it for example
the country or the small country
with the most power blackouts it's
California they have more than 200
blackouts a year. So this is affecting
the Silicon Valley tremendous and so
this is also an issue that we have to
stop this blackout opportunities and
this is related to too much power need
from companies from private sectors
because of immobility everybody would
like to drive a e vehicle so we have to
charge the e vehicles on the night but
then it's a problem because the grid
capacity is too low in Germany it's 50
or 100 kilowatt and if you have a c a
car with 150 kilowatt batteries So then
it's a problem and if if in a in a
community 100 200 400 cars would like to
to charge at the same time that's a
problem. So
so if I understood well you are
saying that we are in a speed race at
the end. So to stabilize the grid we
could have many solution technical
solution but the storage system are
much faster to be implemented in
manufactured implemented and right of
course because integration of PV is a
necessary step to be independent and to
produce the power by your own many more
cheaper as you're catching the power
from the grid but on the other hand side
standalone system standalone battery
system who can provide 100 megawatt or
200 megawatt in the grid for making the
grid stable is necessary and we have to
do this in the range of terowatts in
Germany. So we are expecting 10 to 20
terowatts of such a storage solution to
make the grid stable.
So how can we do this? So we need we
need suppliers who can realize it. So we
need all the restrictions of course
otherwise the greed is exploding the
restrictions in Germany are maybe too
high. So because we need so many
different kind of certificates to be
able to connect to the grid. So we have
to talk to politics they will help us to
give more power and to install with more
speed all the energy storage system. But
without storage system, it's not
possible to live with energy in the next
20 years. So that's it's a it's a must.
It's a must have and as soon as possible
because we learned from Spain,
it can happen. It can also happen in
Germany for example, not in this in this
case as in Spain because we have too
much centralized system. We have in
Germany around 800 transmission
companies. So then it gives us the
opportunity we have decentralized energy
producing production or generation and
but we have to install more more more
more energy storage system.
Yeah you have seen in Chile
you have experience there also that we
are like two or three gawatt in under
environmental evaluation. So it is going
to be a big deployment the next years.
And just the last question to you
just u what would you say to the people
who is saying that we should install
more PV for example that we were
discussing a bit before the camera that
how do you see it you can compare it
normally we have to pay in Germany
for small industrial companies around
€20 for energy from the greed companies
and this is too much to be
competitive enough for making products
and sending out the products worldwide
to make an export because our products
are too expensive because of the high
energy costs. How we can realize it? How
we can change it? We can install PV and
the installed PV the lifetime of PV
panels are in the moment 30 to 40 years.
And because of the new generation of
solar panels, topcon technology and hit
junction technology, the lifetime is so
long and the degradation factor is also
very very low. So although in Europe or
in south of Europe, you can produce 1
kilowatt hour for 1.5 cents.
Only with PV of course you need a
storage in addition, but then it's
around between four and 8 cents. Euro
cents. Even in thous of Spain, you have
4 cent. If you're going to whatever
Germany, you have you can you can
produce energy together with PV around 8
cents. But it's cheaper as 20 cent.
Everybody have to think about how can I
make my own energy with PV panels? How
can I be independent from the grid
because of some blackouts like in Spain?
And but I need energy storage system
otherwise I cannot work with
Yeah. So there
I was reading about all
the solution that you have put
across in close to Netherlands. I think
that a lot of farmers are using battery
storage and you would not think of them
as first movers or early adopters. But
why why is it that they are one of
the first people who are devising
battery solutions? the farmer
they are the special client and so they
have the most of the farmers have big
buildings that they can produce a huge
amount of PV.
They're getting very very cheap credit
lines from the banks
because they are safe because they are
farmers.
But the farmers if they are doing for
example milking
so the milking time is in the morning at
5:00 and the evening around 6 or 7:00.
So no sun is shining at this time,
but they have a huge amount of roofs.
So they can produce enough PV power with
a very very cheap price. But then they
need energy storage for storing this
PV energy on the noon time and shifting
then to the evening and the morning if
they need it on the next day. So for
making milking and also for cooling the
milk. So this is an typical a typical
application for agriculture farms and
though they have to install the storage
otherwise I cannot work with the PV.
Yeah.
And this was the reason that we although
we having a big big partner with
positron in Belgium they installed
hundreds of such systems with hund many
hundreds of different kind of clients in
Belgium and now over in Netherlands.
What is the typical pricing for let's
say for 1 megawatt of storage and what
is the li minimum amount of storage that
someone can have?
It's critical to say because in
the moment there are there are rumors
all the in the world that
whatever a battery is possible for
buying to below 100 euro per kilowatt
hour but it depends what you are
comparing it if is only the battery if
this battery with PCS systems is a
battery with PCS systems and MV stations
because you need transformer stations if
you would like to be grid connected
what kind of software you have to use
there they are sometimes special
software related so then the price is
different of course
and if you're connecting then to big
greed companies for example you have to
provide
10 or 15 years warranty you have to
provide support for 10 or 15 years you
have to give availability guarantees but
then it's a different kind of price and
if you're having a small a small
commercialized installation of 400
kilowatt It's a different price if you
make a 100 megawatt storage system with
containerized solution. And we have for
example 10 ft containers with 5 megawatt
in one 20 ft container. So with the new
technology of liquid cooled parts, it's
not anymore air cooled, it's also liquid
cooled. So we have you can pack on a
smaller space more battery cells. And
the liquid cooled part gives you the
opportunity that all the cells in one
module have the same temperature and
it's better for the for the whole
process. And you can pack it with
with a smaller space. So then it's an
option. 5 years ago you need a 40 ft
container to put in 2.5 megawatt and the
moment we have half a 20 ft container
and can put in 5 megawatt in. So it's
fantastic opportunity for shrink the
dimension of space you need it's for
industrial company important it's for
substations important but this is
essentially
yeah it was a difficult question
with prices but lately
international energy agency released
a study with the projection and the
historical and projection of battery
storage prices..
So in that note about this this
projection of prices, how do you see it
in the future and how is the market
right now with the problem is what we
have to see is we don't have to make
the same the same fault as the PV
industry did. So the problem of the
beef industry was over capacity.
Okay. So many many other Chinese
producers were thinking okay the
expectation of integration renewables is
huge in Europe.
It's so we have to we have to put in
every every year in Germany around 25
gawatt is PV every year.
Every year we should do this though
otherwise we can have until 230
230 to 250 gawatt installed. So but how
can we do this? So and the most of the
Chinese company were thinking okay we
have to wrap up quickly because the
demand is so huge
but the problem was who can install it.
Yeah.
So the installer base was too low. So
then it was necessary to say we cannot
do this right now. We have to wait until
all the installers ramped up quickly
with their employment
and all the development. all the
development all the design
it takes too long. So then it was over
capacity reason for the PV industry. So
we don't have to do this in the storage
market. At the moment the people are
thinking yes we don't do this all the
special techman has a has a strategy
that we would like to have by end of
this year around 25 to 27 gawatt hour
production capacity. This is enough this
is enough for the market we would like
to entering. So people would like to
have the focus on applicationdriven
technology and the step by step
otherwise it's too complicated and then
you are curious many many falls. So this
is the reason that I'm expecting of
course the prices will drop down maybe a
little bit not so much as end of last
year because you also have to develop
new basic materials because anode and
cut materials are one part. The very
very important part is the separate
because otherwise you have problems with
recombination facts
and so the ions are going from cathode
to anode for example and if the
separatum is not the best one though the
ions are going back. So you can
eliminate this with high technology. We
have to invest in high technology to
make sure that you have a better
lifetime of the batteries. And many
years ago, the lifetime was maybe
related to the cycle opportunity,
charging and discharging cycles.
How many years last
five six years it was only 3 to 4, 000
cycles opportunity.
At the moment, we running up to 8, 000 or
10, 000 cycles. This means the energy
storage, if you're using this in the in
the renewable energy market and you have
PV panels, so you need one cycle a day
for charging and discharging. In one
year you have 365 cycles in 10 years
3, 600. If you can if you can re if you
can realize 8, 000 cycle lifetime that
then the batteries lifetime is more than
20 years and this is essentially
development step that you have to be in
the focus and if you're going then at
the moment in the power trading market
greet support so you need sometimes 1.6
cycles a day. So then you need to need
the capacities for more as 8, 000 cycles
in your future. But you have to develop
such as then basic materials and you
have to spend all the money for
developing this and that the
technical solution because I have been
in the designing side. So
some manufacturers said that you can
have your best installed and then after
15 years you can add a model to keep
the same standard or like an upgrade.
How how does it work in
how do you say
obviously I cannot say it now because
because you're right you have to give
a capacity guarantee and
after 20 years after 8, 000 cycles the
battery is not dead
it's not the same
that they have they have a limitation
then of 60% or more in the battery.
So you can also work longer with
the same battery. If you would like to
to change it to make to make power
changing repowering like we
we did this in the wind industry for
example
then you have to think about what kind
of technology we would like to have in
20 years.
Is this lithium ion or is this maybe
sodium sulfur because or is this is this
sink air batteries
change?
So it I think it will change. So in 20
years I think we will have a different
kind of technology.
many many institutes are developing
right now all the sodium sulfur
batteries again nitium sulfate and in
Germany and so it's in the moment over a
very big big opportunity for the car
industry because the energy density is
higher from sodium sulfur but the cycle
opportunity is too low at the moment
but with different kind of development
steps in the future they can also
produce sodium sulfur with eight or
10, 000 cycles
but now is lithium
the main player.
Yeah, it's not it's it's it's not so
much lithium. It's it's shrinking then.
Of course, if you if you're using then
for example zinc air batteries, there's
no lithium again. So, we have different
kind of opportunities to reduce the
basic materials
and the lithium comes from the salt of
course. So, how we can change this? I
think in 20 years we have a different
kind of technologies. We have lower
price of modules. If you would like to
do repowering, we can repower the whole
storage.
And what about the sodium batteries?
Yeah, I think this a this is a future
technology. I think in 10 or 15
years, I think this could be a very very
big part of storage integration in
the future. On the other hand side, you
have to see who is financing big
installations like 50 megawatt, like 100
megawatt. These are institutional in
investors. These are banks for example.
And what other banks are doing at the
moment?
They would like to minimize the risk if
they're giving credit lines. So they
don't like to invest in new technology.
So even we have in 10 years a new
technology I think they will invest
longer on with lithium because this is
this is
a secure technology and of course we
also developed also titanium oxid
technology for special solutions with
20, 000 serif cycles
and but it's expensive but it's it's an
ongoing process that we are also working
with many many different kind of
institutes for making development steps
also in the future.
And on that note, for Techlment, you
have the R&D also in Europe. I heard
that you have something in Hamburg too
that
Yeah, we opened the service and
technology center in Hamburg. There are
sitting people making support and making
all the process engineering steps. We
have another another support center in
Brman that we also investing in
the software side
because it's necessary to have the right
software so energy management software
not only for peak shaving not only for
home own consumption not only for
agriculture farms it's also necessary to
have the right software for power
trading for the arbitrage market and
this is a new market in Europe this
power trading market and we are
developing with some partners then such
as softwares that we can provide the
whole the whole energy management
software in this part too and this is
related then although that we need
process and software engineers although
in Germany it's a necessary step we will
be independent for example also for the
CPUs because you heard it all maybe in
London or in UK that many people are
cautious about can China disconnect from
China via via global your your
storage system can they do this
all with adapters also
all the inverters and then it's a
security opportunity that you have to
provide this all in Germany with the
right CPU for example from German
companies with the right software with a
firewall
with safety requirements and we are
doing this
so then we have a cloud opportunity the
cloud is not in China is in Germany for
example and you have to provide this to
clients to make sure that the clients
are trusting you a necessary step.
Wow. And in the technical side, how
do you see the end of life cycle of
the batteries the all the recycle supply
chain or how do you see this developing?
I think there are in the moment it's a
it's not a problem but it's a an
opportunity to make a recycling of
lithium ion batteries up to 70%. 70 can
be
can be at the moment to do with
70%. But in the moment it's not
necessary to recycle because the most of
the batteries are not older as five or
six or 10 years
in
2013.
So in around 5 years the institutes if
their institutes are in Germany or in
Austria they're expecting to can
recycle lithium up to 90%. And then we
are roughly about in the same stage as
we were many many years ago with V
acid batteries. So we can recycle these
batteries. So if the lifetime is done on
the battery, it's maybe then in 20 years
it's should be an opportunity to recycle
them and it's a must must have because
if you're integrating or if you're
bringing in from outside of Europe the
batteries inside Europe, you have to
make sure that you recycle in Europe.
Exactly. And but you're saying that the
lithium it's 70% recycled, but what
about the rest of the
containers are aluminum or steel.
The containers are stainless steel. The
copper cables you can use it and that
it's not a problem. The electronic
materials you can recycle it if there
are transistors or whatever inside.
it's it's it's not a big problem. And
the liquid cooled part make sure that
you don't have so much ventilators
because you don't have make an air
cooling in the system. So it's also
reducing the material they can be broken
for example. So then it's also a better
opportunity for recycling events. You
have to work with recycling companies in
in around Europe. We are doing this over
in UK and this gives us the
opportunity to see how we can make sure
that we can offer to the client a
recycling plan that give them that they
can trust although if there is end of
the life after 10 or 20 years it is
possible to recycle these batteries.
Amazing. And there's so much of
knowledge that you have given us and
also in that is required to actually
have the battery solutions where it
should go and scale and we heard about
you Texom
is having a best academy where there
will be education given to the EPC
people so that they can they can have
the solution better and they can install
it better. Can you tell us a bit more
about it? Yeah, this education academy
is also named about a training academy
that we're giving all the clients. We
have an ecosystem. So we are bringing
not only the clients, not only the EPC
partners from our side, we're also
bringing then the investors. We bringing
the developers of basic materials. We
bringing the institutes together to
making an ecoycle to share all the
information what is necessary to produce
a sustainable and reliable battery
system, a whole system, not only the
batteries together with inverters and
with the transformer stations
and this is a necessary step and we
train of course then our partners very
very deep in China and also in Europe
for having this ecos for having this
academy and we started this academy and
it's I think it's a very very good
opportunity. So we would like to have
regional regional meetings
together if our vapers if our video
online interviews or trainings
we have on-site trainings of course we
bringing some clients to different kind
of other installations to show them we
are increasing our capacity in the
training center in Hamburg in Braymond
we're starting all of them end of this
year a training center and a support
center near Munich So it's we have
partners all the in the east side of
Europe that we're working very deep and
this is also essentially issue that we
need partners to make sure that on the
end we can support our clients in the
best way more than 10 years or 15 years
or 20 years.
Amazing. And what if some member of
the community want to participate in the
academy? Is it open for everyone or only
for partners?
it's open it's open for academy.
So we have to of course we have to
split. So then we have partners and
they're working for us. They're making
the installation. We have but we would
like to give all of this international
technology information to all people
they would like to participate. So we
are making web near
and to give them to share information
about technology to share the
information about application
expectations in different kind of
markets. We are doing this over
worldwide but the special information
about how we produced or how we
developed new steps of future technology
of course we share them only with our
partners.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. And this is related
also with the EPC training that we
mentioned before or is different?
Yes, you can.
Okay.
That's amazing. Hey Sasha been
No, no. I one more question.
because
it's so interesting.
Yeah, we jump from your personal
story to the technical, but I'm
curious about your entrepreneur
entrepreneurial spirit. So, if you
should or if you could start a company
now in this current scenario in the
energy sector, what would you do?
I would like to do of course to provide
energy storage system to the Greek
market and to the industrial market
because it's a market they need the
storage system but of
entrepreneurship or what you imagine
the problem is starting a company from
the scratch is difficult
to have a company behind you who is
producing materials who producing the
software who have experience more than
20 years long about this problem in the
in the industry because although Techman
learned how it's necessary to install
switch gears and if you in the future
install switch gears with transformer in
the in Germany for example they have
to be SF6 free there's a special gas
that normally is used so they have to be
free in the from the beginning of 2026
so you have to have this development
steps behind you we have behind you a
big company that are stable enough and
can give you all the guarant guarantees.
These are also expected from most of the
big investors or big clients. So
starting from the scratch of course it
would be a fantastic opportunity because
the demand is so huge but you have to
they have to be cautious how you can do
this. It's it's not so it's it's not so
easy but in the market we are at the
moment it's industrial it's commercial
it's utility scale. This is exactly the
market everybody should be.
Yeah. And in among all the products that
you have, what's your favorite?
The Turkey solution is the favorite
because without all this what we
providing, you cannot realize the right
application. Only with batteries is
impossible. Only with PCS systems
and without energy storage is
impossible. Only with transformer
stations is impossible. only with the
batteries and PCS and transformer
without the right software it's also
impossible. So you have to have
everything together otherwise it's
difficult to put storage system in
the market. It's not a storage is a
solution we are delivering application
solutions.
Okay. Amazing. And is there something
else that you would like to share or
to tell that we didn't ask? I think we
would like to people like to
increase the capacity all the in market
tremendous but you're coming
from Chile and you're also from India so
it's all an expectation from the global
market
that the installations of storage
system will be will be increased
tremendous in the next time but on the
of course what you have to provide you
have to provide a fully functional
system if you're starting with a system
who is not doing what you what you
promised and you're out of the market
extremely
and we are also a new
company we are not sangrow we are not
BYD
how old is the current
30 years
more than 30 years
and but we are concentrating us on a
medium side capacity
so we have to we have to ensure and we
have to insist our clients with the
right technology and it's It's necessary
that the clients can trust. So this is
our our intention that we will fulfill
such a requirement. So we have to do
things with high quality.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Now I will wait for my friend to ask
all the questions because it been a
very intriguing interview with you
for sure and we got getting to know all
the turnkey solutions of Techlomen and
also the
the problems and challenges and
opportunities for battery stoages. Thank
you Sasha insightful interview and we
hope to
sit some sometime again because we
haven't finished we have a lot more
questions coming. Obviously, we have to
do this monthly.
Don't worry. Thank you very much.
Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Thank you very much. And
thank you all for watching until the end
of the interview. And stay tuned because
now we are in Munich. We're going to
shoot some interviews. So, see you next
time.

Tecloman's Approach to Energy Storage Solutions with Thomas Sascha - InterSolar Ep- 2

Integrated solutions are essential

Storage capacity needs to grow

Agriculture is a key market

Recycling rates are improving