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S1E21

Energy Communities, Innovation & Leadership with Hemma Bieser |Mission Innovation Austria

with Hemma Bieser· OurPower· 46m

TL;DR

Energy transition disruption will emerge from startups, digital platforms, and cross-sector entrants rather than incumbent utilities locked in Christensen's Innovator's Dilemma. Peer-to-peer digital energy sharing cooperatives enable 24/7 localized clean electricity sourcing, surpassing the ~30% self-sufficiency ceiling typical of standard regulatory energy communities.

Synopsis
Hemma Bieser, founder of our-smart and co-founder of Austrian energy-sharing cooperative OurPower, breaks down the evolution of business model innovation in the European power sector. She contrasts standard regulatory energy communities—which rely on simultaneous 15-minute generation matching—with full-portfolio peer-to-peer digital cooperatives. Drawing parallels between Web 2.0 and bidirectional smart grids, Bieser examines the structural inertia of incumbent utilities, the 4 Ds of energy transition, and the operational mindset required for energy entrepreneurs leading in volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous (VUCA) regulatory and market environments.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 4
  • 30%
    typical share of household consumption covered by standard real-time energy communities
  • 1,500
    current users on the OurPower energy-sharing platform
  • 400
    renewable energy producers registered on OurPower
  • 10,000
    targeted next milestone for OurPower platform users

Topics

7 tags
energy communitiespeer-to-peer tradingbusiness modelssmart gridsdigitalizationstartupsdecentralization
Stats
Duration
45m
Words
8.1k
Questions
50
Speakers
3

Daniel Schaub · Hemma Bieser · Rahul Mishra

Timeline

9 chapters

  1. From physics to climate innovation

    Bieser traces her background from physics research at CERN to launching public funding programs at the Austrian Climate and Energy Fund.

  2. Customer-centric energy business models

    Applying Alexander Osterwalder's Business Model Canvas to move utilities beyond viewing end-users purely as metering points.

  3. Web 2.0 analogy for the smart grid

    Comparing the shift from unidirectional internet to participatory platforms with the rise of bidirectional citizen prosumer grids.

  4. Incumbents and the Innovator's Dilemma

    Why traditional utilities defend existing revenue streams, leaving disruptive innovation to startups and IT entrants.

  5. The 4 Ds of energy transition

    Outlining the framework of Decarbonization, Decentralization, Digitalization, and Democratization.

  6. OurPower vs. standard energy communities

    Contrasting 15-minute interval local matching with OurPower's 24/7 year-round digital cooperative marketplace.

  7. European cooperative models and scaling

    Using European cooperative legal structures to navigate disparate national transposition of EU energy directives.

  8. Leadership in a VUCA environment

    Defining the core leadership competencies needed to manage volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity in energy ventures.

  9. Cross-border knowledge transfer in CEE

    Strategies for accelerating regional energy transition through mentorship, matchmaking, and Horizon Europe programs.

Key insights

4 takeaways
  • 01

    Incumbents face structural barriers to disruptive innovation

    Under Clayton Christensen's Innovator's Dilemma framework, established utilities are structurally wired to protect existing asset bases, centralized dispatch, and legacy margin streams. Consequently, disruptive business models in the energy sector originate almost exclusively from external software firms, startups, and new regulatory mandates originating from Brussels rather than national incumbent R&D.

  • 02

    Standard energy communities hit an autarky ceiling without portfolio aggregation

    Standard regulatory energy communities in Austria match local production within rigid 15-minute settlement intervals, typically capping self-supply at roughly 30% of an off-taker's annual profile. Supplying full consumer demand requires peer-to-peer digital architectures that aggregate complementary production assets—balancing PV, wind, and run-of-river hydro—across cooperative platforms.

  • 03

    Energy democratization mimics the evolution of bidirectional media

    The energy transition follows the structural shift observed between early static web hosting and Web 2.0. Transitioning from centralized generation plants to active, bidirectional prosumer networks demands regional smart grid orchestration, automated demand-response signaling, and digital nudging to synchronize load with intermittent distributed generation.

  • 04

    Energy entrepreneurship requires navigating non-linear VUCA conditions

    Unlike conventional engineering environments characterized by deterministic inputs and predictable outputs, commercial energy transition projects operate under high volatility, regulatory ambiguity, and complex multi-stakeholder dynamics. Founders must pair long-range visionary communication with agile execution to survive lengthy legislative cycles and grid interconnection hurdles.

Pull quotes

4 quotes
  • Because for people working in the energy sector, there were no customers. There were metering points.
    Hemma Bieser
  • So, the system of the organization wants to defend every new idea. So, I do not expect disruptive innovation from the established energy companies.
    Hemma Bieser
  • And so, from our experience, it's about 30% of your consumption that you can get from the energy community, but not the whole consumption that that you have over the year.
    Hemma Bieser
  • And in a VUCA world, you put something in, and you have no idea what will come out.
    Hemma Bieser
Transcript401 cuesClick a timestamp to jump
  1. Daniel Schaub: Well, welcome to a new episode uh of Energy Bridge video podcast. And And today we have the honour to have uh Hemma, if we can call you.
  2. Hemma Bieser: For sure, yes. That's fine.
  3. Daniel Schaub: Fine. Uh Emma was uh our teacher about leadership and it was so insightful class that we approach you right away after the class to ask you for this. So, we really appreciate your willingness to to support uh this project. And uh to speak about this interesting topic which is innovation in energy and all the challenges that leads to be entrepreneurial in this environment. So.
  4. Rahul Mishra: And leadership within the energy framework. But I mean, Hemma has been doing a lot of innovation, a lot of leadership, a lot of mentoring. Uh you name it, and she has been doing it. So, thank you, Hemma, for doing this. We want to uh Our community wants to uh would like to also understand your early life, like what you have done, what you did, where did you grew up. If you could tell us a bit.
  5. Hemma Bieser: Okay. Um First of all, thank you for inviting me, thank you for having me here. It's really a pleasure for me. So, my innovation journey really started a long time ago. So, when I was a teenager, I was fascinated by the Star Trek movies. Maybe you you also know them. Um because I also wanted to explore new galaxies. So, making journeys somewhere out there in the universe. I wanted to be a pioneer, an innovator.
  6. Daniel Schaub: Okay, what like an astronaut?
  7. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. Like an astronaut. Yeah, I wanted to be somebody who is brave enough to um challenge the existing and to go, yeah, just go new ways, new paths, breaking new ground. So, this was my ambition when I was a teenager. Yeah, I was very curious. I was asking a lot of questions. Mhm. And then when I was uh 18, when I finished uh school, I thought it would be a great idea to study physics. Mhm. Mhm. So, I moved to Vienna, and I studied physics at the university.
  8. Daniel Schaub: Grew up?
  9. Hemma Bieser: Uh in Klagenfurt. Klagenfurt is in the very south uh of Austria, in the capital city of uh Carinthia.
  10. Daniel Schaub: Okay, okay.
  11. Hemma Bieser: And then I moved to Vienna and started to study at the University of Technology where also we we met. And so my idea was, or my expectation was, that I go to university and for each question, I also will get some answer. And, okay, I I learned a lot. I got a lot of answers, but for every question, that um yeah, where I found an answer, two more questions came up. And so it's a never-ending game.
  12. Hemma Bieser: Exactly, that's that's science, but um at the end, uh I learned a lot and um I'm I'm happy I found a lot of answers. And uh still I found a lot of more more questions, but I'm I'm fine with that, so.
  13. Daniel Schaub: So, what happened with this uh young Emma trying to be an astronaut, a- and then how the the light went to be entrepreneurial?
  14. Hemma Bieser: Well, after university, I started to work for a big consulting company, for uh Accenture.
  15. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  16. Hemma Bieser: And then, uh some years later, I I decided um I wanted to do something with more um impact. And I started to work in the in the field of uh climate action and energy transition.
  17. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  18. Hemma Bieser: In 2008, I started to work for the Austrian Climate and Energy Fund. So, this was um yeah, in 2008 when the fund was established by the Austrian government. And for more than 3 years, I yeah, was working there, was um helping to build up the the structures, the organization. I was working on um strategies and communication and energy research programs. It was interesting to work in that um political environment. Mhm. Together with ministries, together with funding agencies. But at the end, I I found out for myself that I am an entrepreneur. I want to do innovation and I want to do it on myself.
  19. Daniel Schaub: Okay, you rediscover your inner child, curious and with eager to conquer the universe.
  20. Hemma Bieser: Absolutely. Yeah. And I uh I discovered again for me a field where I can have more um creativity, where there are not so much boundaries. When you are an entrepreneur, you you set the boundaries and not the ministry or not the funding agency.
  21. Daniel Schaub: And just to understand, because I didn't know that you studied physics.
  22. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  23. Daniel Schaub: And it's a field where in in energy field in in general that we are um we are as a sector um this uh soft skills are lacking, right?
  24. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  25. Daniel Schaub: So, you are coming from hard science.
  26. Hemma Bieser: Absolutely.
  27. Daniel Schaub: And then you went into politics and then entrepreneur in the energy sector. So, that was the mix that you found a niche or?
  28. Hemma Bieser: This was uh an um absolute um yeah improvement or a change because when I was um studying or when I was working in the field of uh physics, it's very rational, everything.
  29. Daniel Schaub: Formulas. Exact.
  30. Hemma Bieser: Formulas, it's it's fact, predictable.
  31. Hemma Bieser: Then it was in 2011 when I established my own innovation company, our-smart, and I started to work in the field of um business models and business model innovation for energy transition. And at that time, when we talked about business models, we talked about technologies and we talked about financials. I'm not sure if you learned about or heard about the business model canvas.
  32. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  33. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, okay, sure. As an entrepreneur, you know it. Um And it was in at the same time when Alexander Osterwalder, from Switzerland, so he was the one who invented the business model canvas, um when he started his workshops and I learned innovation, I learned business model innovation um from Alexander Osterwalder.
  34. Daniel Schaub: Wow.
  35. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  36. Hemma Bieser: And the the great thing what he did is to have this um yeah rational or technical structure of the business model canvas, and combine it with design thinking. And in this design thinking process, always um the user, always the consumer, is in the center. And that's what you what you see in the business model canvas. In the middle of the canvas, in the middle of the business model is the user and the value proposition that you have for the user.
  37. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  38. Hemma Bieser: And this was completely new for the whole energy sector. Because for people working in the energy sector, there were no customers.
  39. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  40. Hemma Bieser: There were metering points.
  41. Daniel Schaub: And demand, like uh.
  42. Hemma Bieser: Demand, yeah.
  43. Daniel Schaub: But not personally.
  44. Hemma Bieser: No, no person behind, yeah.
  45. Rahul Mishra: It's It's so interesting because you started this in already way back in 2011.
  46. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, it's really a long time ago.
  47. Rahul Mishra: And it was still conventional back then, I I would presume. Uh that renewable was just starting.
  48. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  49. Rahul Mishra: uh to scale and so, how do you see the difference between the value proposition back then and and now? Like how how it had changed and because now people have to innovate way more faster than they had to do let's say 10 years ago. So, what are the changes that you see? The business model canvas is also evolving?
  50. Hemma Bieser: It is. We have um so more understanding of uh our customers. We have more understanding of the motivation of of the people. And um we have better digital technologies.
  51. Daniel Schaub: Hm yeah, with the AI it's crazy.
  52. Hemma Bieser: Even with AI. It's again that they have connected with AI. Talking about um digital platforms like we have since um 2015, 2016. And yes, uh so from from last year on with AI, it's uh again a um technology boost, yeah, yeah.
  53. Daniel Schaub: Now that you are sharing this knowledge with students.
  54. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  55. Daniel Schaub: How have you seen the difference in in generations? Like, now new students, comparing with back in the time. Like with which kind of mindset have you came across? We are more entrepreneurials, or more conservative, or what difference have you seen?
  56. Hemma Bieser: Going back to to to the time when I was at university, I had two great experiences, and this was when I was um uh abroad. So, I spent uh 6 months in Italy, I studied in Pisa and this was a great experience.
  57. Daniel Schaub: In Bologna?
  58. Hemma Bieser: And when I made my uh master's thesis, I was uh working in Geneva at CERN, which is the European Center for Nuclear Research. And here you have really that international environment. You have people from uh also working coming from all over the world, um working on the same topic, having the same uh goals. And this was really great, and it was really inspiring for me.
  59. Daniel Schaub: Everything everybody was.
  60. Hemma Bieser: Absolutely, yeah.
  61. Daniel Schaub: It's super important.
  62. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. This was a great experience um for me, so I was used to work in that international environment. And what I see now is that um even more um international programs are existing. So, in Europe but uh whole uh over the whole world. So, so people from all over Europe and all over the world come also to Vienna to to study here. And I appreciate it a lot.
  63. Daniel Schaub: We are an example.
  64. Hemma Bieser: You are the best example for that. It's It's really It's
  65. Rahul Mishra: From India, Chile, in Vienna.
  66. Hemma Bieser: No, it's it's it's really great. And um I have a lot of experience now, I have a lot of know-how, but I am aware of the fact that um I have learned a lot, I can share my wisdom with you. You can take it, take it as a basis, but challenge it, and it's your turn now to improve it and to make it better.
  67. Hemma Bieser: So, I hand it over to you now.
  68. Daniel Schaub: We take the challenge.
  69. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, I mean just on that note, what do you think are the are the You have been based and innovating in this region for very long time, so the opportunities and challenges that you see for the entrepreneurs. I mean, especially in the energy sector, but as a whole as well.
  70. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, a long time time ago, yeah, there was a There was a time without internet.
  71. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  72. Daniel Schaub: Oh, yeah.
  73. Hemma Bieser: In the in the 90s, um when the internet came up, it was uh at the beginning only in one direction. Yeah, you had uh on the one hand, you had the content provider, a center.
  74. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  75. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, and on the other hand, you had the consumers. Mhm. And then we had this invention called the web 2.0.
  76. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  77. Daniel Schaub: Okay, what is that?
  78. Hemma Bieser: At that time, you first um this was the moment when you uh when it was the first time possible that you share content in the internet.
  79. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  80. Hemma Bieser: So, you had uh up from that time, you had that um communication in two directions.
  81. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  82. Hemma Bieser: So, this is about 20 years ago. Maybe 22, 25 years ago.
  83. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  84. Hemma Bieser: Um, and with the platforms like uh Facebook, and everything coming up, that uh the internet is not going only in one direction, but in both directions. And really so there was a time when this was not possible. And you cannot remember. But this changed everything. So, that really everybody was able, or everybody is able now to um yeah, make your own website, make your own software, share content, share pictures, um share videos uh with the whole community.
  85. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  86. Hemma Bieser: And somehow this idea, how how can we translate it or transform it also for the energy system? So, basically everybody, and this is citizen power, everybody um is now allowed to produce their own energy, Yeah, and also to deliver it to the
  87. Daniel Schaub: Wow.
  88. Hemma Bieser: energy grid. Be part of a big community producing energy, consuming energy, sharing energy with your neighbors and with your friends.
  89. Daniel Schaub: Wow, that's a great analogy, right? Like in both ways to make it bidirectional with the prosumers. Now we energy, but was the same in internet. It's It's amazing. So, which opportunities do you see for entrepreneurials in energy sector now there is uh this environment which is bidirectional.
  90. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. Um so, I'm especially interested in technologies that are ready now for the market entry.
  91. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  92. Hemma Bieser: So, we can talk about hydrogen or CCS or whatever, but these are things they're happening in the future. Talking about um technology readiness, we have renewable energies, so we have um PV, we have wind, we have hydropower. We have storage solutions, we have electromobility. And um what I'm yeah, working on since a long time is the concept of uh, you know, the smart grid?
  93. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  94. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. So, basically you have the producers, you have the prosumers, you have uh charging stations, you have electricity. And you need ICT to orchestrate all the players um in a certain region or in a certain grid. And this is very fascinating. It's a huge challenge. You need a lot of intelligence. You need a lot of uh AI. But these are so from my point of view, very, very interesting um fields of innovation. So, this regional energy systems with technology compo- components, with AI, with ICT.
  95. Rahul Mishra: And also uh, since we talk about innovation and it comes a lot of challenges. Especially with this integration of all the I- ICT. Uh, I feel that also with what happened this week in in Spain and
  96. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  97. Rahul Mishra: that people are blacked out, and there's a lot of uh let's call them right-wing
  98. Rahul Mishra: politicians again demanding going back to the uh, whole energy system.
  99. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  100. Rahul Mishra: And these innovations won't be possible and whenever you uh, you talk about innovation you need to overcome those hurdles and some more. So, like what are the challenges that you see?
  101. Hemma Bieser: Uh especially for the startups or for the energy transition?
  102. Rahul Mishra: Just just for the energy transition, also because for the startups as a whole right now.
  103. Hemma Bieser: So, we have
  104. Hemma Bieser: two questions at one time.
  105. Daniel Schaub: That was not in the in the movie, so.
  106. Rahul Mishra: We like to get people on the spot.
  107. Hemma Bieser: Oh no, it's it's yeah, um you had a similar question which was about um what uh innovation leaders in incumbents or energy com- uh companies could could do. And what then came into my mind is a also a book from the 90s, from 97, which is called "The Innovator's Dilemma".
  108. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  109. Daniel Schaub: You know that book? No, what is it?
  110. Hemma Bieser: It's um from Clayton Christensen. He was a professor at the Harvard Business School. And um he wrote a book about why it's so hard for um established companies to make real disruptive innovation. And so to to bring it in a point, in in one or two sentences, um every new idea um is an offensive for the existing system, for the ex- existing products, revenue streams, marketing shares, an organization, a a good company has. So, the system of the organization wants to defend every new idea. So, I do not expect disruptive innovation from the established energy uh companies. So, you have very traditional structures here and they fight against innovation. So, innovation can only come from startups, uh from players outside the energy sector,
  111. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  112. Hemma Bieser: where we see now um for example ICT or IT companies um who enter the market, who enter the the energy market. Um innovation happens at the established energy companies when you have a new regulation, uh if you have new uh laws. And now this, hm, depends a little bit on the laws that are made in in Brussels for the European uh Union, more than the national laws. So, they they are really um relevant for for Austria.
  113. Daniel Schaub: So, it's a challenge itself for entrepreneurials and innovator to get into a conservative sector which is defending itself with new ideas, right?
  114. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  115. Daniel Schaub: And in energy transition in in general, how do you see the role of um citizen citizen engagement?
  116. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  117. Daniel Schaub: in in this process?
  118. Hemma Bieser: Absolutely necessary.
  119. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, it's it's really in the center, yeah, because we had uh the Green Deal of the European Union, it's also about 7 or 8 years ago. And when I think about um energy transition, I always have this model of the 4 Ds in mind. So, it's about decarbonization. So, going away from fossil fuels and implementing renewable energy, so decarbonization. Decentralization, so we don't have uh anymore the central power plants, but many decentralized PV power plants all over the country. The third one is um the digitalization, so having this uh digital platforms for yeah, trading energy. And the fourth D is the democratization. So, in this energy transition, um people, citizens, um play really a crucial role, not only as customers, but really as yeah, as um active citizens who are prosumers, producers, consumers at the same time. Um, but also everybody should have the possibility to decide um from whom he wants or she wants to purchase power.
  120. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  121. Hemma Bieser: And whether money should go to.
  122. Daniel Schaub: And the source.
  123. Hemma Bieser: And the source, yeah, absolutely.
  124. Daniel Schaub: So, we came up with the idea of energy communities somehow. So, if you can if you could explain in general
  125. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  126. Daniel Schaub: idea, what is what is it?
  127. Hemma Bieser: Okay, um I would like to start with OurPower.
  128. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  129. Daniel Schaub: Sure.
  130. Hemma Bieser: And um maybe to to explain the um the difference.
  131. Daniel Schaub: That was an expression for me, sorry.
  132. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, it's fine. So, um we have been working on the concept of we we call it energy sharing.
  133. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  134. Hemma Bieser: So, we started, I think about um 2015,
  135. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  136. Hemma Bieser: uh also with uh um politics and ministries and with the um uh European Commission.
  137. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  138. Hemma Bieser: And then we established OurPower in 2018. And we do two kinds of innovation. On the one hand, the technical innovation, the digital innovation, because what we build is an online marketplace. And on this marketplace, um producers of renewable energy, they can sell their power directly to customers. And the special thing about OurPower is um that people can sell the whole production over the marketplace, and our customers, they are um so, we we provide electricity for them 24 hours a day, the whole year long. And this is how the marketplace is working. And our innovation is that kind of digital platform and the algorithm behind it.
  139. Daniel Schaub: That's magic.
  140. Hemma Bieser: That's that's a mathematic or magic, call it magic, that's it. This this is fine, yeah. So, this is what we call peer-to-peer trading or energy sharing. We have been pioneers. We have been a good example also for the legislation. So, uh since 2021, we have the new law, and according to the new law, also energy communities are possible in in Austria. But the difference is that in uh energy communities, you can only yeah, consume the electricity which is produced at the same time. So, when the sun is shining and when your PV power plant is producing electricity, and you're at home charging your um vehicle,
  141. Rahul Mishra: and you happen to at at that very moment.
  142. Hemma Bieser: at that uh in a 15-minutes uh interval. So, in the sun when the night uh when when no sun is shining, you cannot um get um power from the energy community.
  143. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  144. Hemma Bieser: And so, from our experience, it's about um 30% of your uh consumption that you can get from the energy community, but not the whole um consumption that that you have over the year.
  145. Daniel Schaub: So, you act like a energy bank, and then you can
  146. Hemma Bieser: Basically, yes, yeah.
  147. Rahul Mishra: And just I you already addressed it, and uh I I was supposed to ask you about the differentiator between OurPower and the other energy communities, and you already talked about it. But do you see like need of more and more energy communities coming along, uh for decentralization as you as you talked about, in in in general? Like, uh more more community to come up, more innovators to come up uh in the sector in the regions?
  148. Hemma Bieser: So, what we need is more renewable power in the energy system.
  149. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  150. Hemma Bieser: And we need more storage,
  151. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  152. Hemma Bieser: and we need more intelligent consumption, so for example, like a demand-response
  153. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  154. Hemma Bieser: uh model. That's what we need. So, coming back to regional energy systems, energy communities are some kind of trading model of electricity. But that that that's not the the end of the story. So, we still need to do some kind of intelligent energy management systems, or even some so so we also developed an nudging app, so you get uh as a consumer the information, okay, tomorrow there will be a lot of sun, you should charge your car, or, hey, tomorrow there will be no sun, please um wait one day before you charge your car the next time. So, this is what we do in the in the in the field of yeah, customer activation. So, that people are aware that the sun is shining, it's a good moment to to use my my electricity now, and um maybe at other days, um I should save more energy.
  155. Daniel Schaub: So, uh how many uh users do you have now in the platform?
  156. Hemma Bieser: We have about um 1,500.
  157. Daniel Schaub: Wow.
  158. Rahul Mishra: Okay.
  159. Rahul Mishra: And that will be a families or uh individual homes?
  160. Hemma Bieser: Exactly, yeah.
  161. Daniel Schaub: Wow. And just to share with the community, if someone wants to join to OurPower, how can they
  162. Hemma Bieser: We have about um oh, it's very simple. So, we have about 400 um producers of renewable energy. It's a it's a digital platform, yeah, it's as easy as um yeah, renting a home on Airbnb.
  163. Daniel Schaub: Wow.
  164. Daniel Schaub: So, you go into the website
  165. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  166. Daniel Schaub: and you can register yourself as a producer or
  167. Hemma Bieser: Or as a Exactly, yeah, and as a consumer, for example, you only need your postal code,
  168. Daniel Schaub: Aha. Okay.
  169. Hemma Bieser: um the uh estimated um consumption you have per year.
  170. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  171. Hemma Bieser: And uh then our marketplace, so it's magic, you get a They they propose you um three different uh producers and it's a mix of PV, wind, and hydropower. And uh you can uh also exchange one of them. We usually propose you um producers that are next to you, so that the um yeah, electricity keeps somewhere in the in the region. But you can also go on our website and you can choose from our 400 producers the one you would, yeah, prefer.
  172. Daniel Schaub: What are your perspective in the future? How many users you dream to have?
  173. Hemma Bieser: So, the next um step will be um 10,000.
  174. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  175. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  176. Daniel Schaub: Okay. Cool. And are you only in Austria, or or or you are thinking about?
  177. Hemma Bieser: So, ah, we were talking about the digital innovation, which is the platform.
  178. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  179. Hemma Bieser: And the second innovation we developed here is the um social innovation.
  180. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  181. Hemma Bieser: So, we are organized as a cooperative. What's special about OurPower is that we are an European cooperative. So, according to European law, that's um makes uh it easier for us uh also also to make um subsidiaries in other European countries. So, that's what we could basically do in a in a next um step.
  182. Daniel Schaub: Okay, and thinking about uh the region Central and Eastern Europe. In order to implement this kind of solutions, uh what are the requirements of the system?
  183. Hemma Bieser: Uh so, it it depends from really from country to country.
  184. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  185. Hemma Bieser: Um we are working also on some uh international EU Horizon uh projects, um for example, together with Portugal or with Greece.
  186. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  187. Hemma Bieser: And they uh they all have um different national laws than we have. It makes it difficult for us too.
  188. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. And to those countries, have you seen that is it would be possible to implement it right now?
  189. Hemma Bieser: The same system as we have?
  190. Daniel Schaub: Or similar, or?
  191. Hemma Bieser: Energy communities in in other countries, um there are some in in uh Greece or in Portugal. I think even in Belgium.
  192. Daniel Schaub: Just an idea that it came up. That it's uh regarding to the blackout in Spain,
  193. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  194. Daniel Schaub: lately. How could it work as a service to increase the security in the grid from the smart city, for example?
  195. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  196. Daniel Schaub: They could be or could they work as an island, electrical island, if if there is a blackout?
  197. Rahul Mishra: Decentralization here.
  198. Daniel Schaub: Could it be possible? What How How do you see it?
  199. Hemma Bieser: Don't think that it makes sense, because we have a European-wide uh energy grid. Yeah, and uh it's so every country is somehow connected to the to other countries.
  200. Daniel Schaub: No, yeah.
  201. Hemma Bieser: And and so, I think that that, especially uh energy islands, they do not make sense.
  202. Daniel Schaub: But when uh not in um like every day working,
  203. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  204. Daniel Schaub: they are connected
  205. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  206. Daniel Schaub: constantly to the red.
  207. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  208. Daniel Schaub: To the grid. This is in Spanish. And but what about when a blackout happen in the grid?
  209. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  210. Daniel Schaub: Could this city work in island?
  211. Rahul Mishra: Just to make it maybe
  212. Daniel Schaub: Just for safety.
  213. Hemma Bieser: In the case of a blackout?
  214. Rahul Mishra: Yeah, for making the system a bit more resilient in in terms of emergency,
  215. Daniel Schaub: With storage, or
  216. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  217. Daniel Schaub: How do you see it?
  218. Hemma Bieser: Difficult.
  219. Hemma Bieser: That's man that that's a technical challenge.
  220. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, this is a a good space for innovation.
  221. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, it's a space for innovation and uh somehow you need this um coordination between the different um grid levels, so between the distribution and the transportation grid.
  222. Rahul Mishra: And Emma, uh just going forward uh, you have been you're kind of the epitome of knowledge transfer, you know? Like, because your your personality is so vivid and you have been doing multiple things. What do you think about knowledge transfer as a whole in in terms of this region? Austria I don't know if we can also include it into Western Europe, somehow.
  223. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  224. Rahul Mishra: Uh in terms of at least per capita income, and and and innovation, it it really falls there. And then, but it's also Vienna especially is gateway to Eastern Europe.
  225. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  226. Rahul Mishra: And where per capita income, GDP, and also innovation, somehow lacks. I'm not saying that people are not innovative enough, but somehow the ecosystem is still lacking. How do you see knowledge transfer happening from from advanced ecosystem for energy transition to those uh countries where which is I mean like, for example Romania, they they they are doing a lot of projects now in terms of uh renewables. So, how do you see the knowledge transfer happening?
  227. Hemma Bieser: Um I see it within our European projects,
  228. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  229. Hemma Bieser: so where we really work with with people from um Greece, to Portugal, or Sicily, to to Poland. We also had one uh project where we work together with um states from the Balkan, and uh with uh Georgia.
  230. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  231. Hemma Bieser: Georgia, it's far behind there. Behind the um East. Um We We were developing uh a website
  232. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  233. Hemma Bieser: with uh information about energy communities in different languages uh, also. There are European projects, European um research programs,
  234. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  235. Hemma Bieser: and they also have a a very, very uh important com- component which is called um exploitation first and then also dissemination. So, there is something happened, but I think there's still room for for more um knowledge uh exchange, for sure.
  236. Daniel Schaub: Now that you mentioned it uh, the Balkan region,
  237. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  238. Daniel Schaub: we read a news in back in March 2025, or this year,
  239. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  240. Daniel Schaub: that they were unplugged from Russia grid, and they are going to be connected in Europe grid.
  241. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  242. Daniel Schaub: So, do you see a potential there to to collaborate or?
  243. Hemma Bieser: Sure. Um they're also interested in um in in energy communities. So, we we made a concept for one project uh together with uh Croatia. Okay, Croatia is already in the European Union, but it's uh also a a Balkan state.
  244. Rahul Mishra: But it's so interesting because Croatia is almost to the end and it's uh connected to the European grid, and then you have the black hole where uh couple of countries in Balkan, they're not connected to the grid.
  245. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, yeah.
  246. Rahul Mishra: So, we we actually are going to have this topic of market integration in the conference, as well. Because it's very, very relevant, they are couple of countries uh which are not connected and it really makes sense. And uh to get them connected, but it comes with its own challenges.
  247. Hemma Bieser: Ah, okay.
  248. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  249. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  250. Daniel Schaub: Yeah. So, um other topic that we wanted to talk with you is about leadership and
  251. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  252. Daniel Schaub: transformation. Like uh this challenge of uh um like which qualities are needed to be uh an entrepreneurial, or to to start a new innovation, especially in energy sector. Which um leadership qualities you think that are needed to do it?
  253. Hemma Bieser: I think this is for every sector the same.
  254. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  255. Hemma Bieser: I would like to point out three
  256. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  257. Hemma Bieser: qualities here. Innovation leaders, they need to be visionary. So, they must be able to design uh a picture of the future. How the future, how life, how the world could be.
  258. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  259. Hemma Bieser: And I think that some of these innovation leaders, they feel somehow lonesome, because nobody else understands them. Okay. They see it, yes. So, they are seeing their vision, and nobody else is seeing it. Yeah. And that brings me to the second point, they really need good communication skills. So, because they need to yeah, inspire
  260. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  261. Hemma Bieser: other people, so that other people also see their vision, and so that they follow them. And the third um quality is um they need to survive in a VUCA world. Do you know the word VUCA?
  262. Daniel Schaub: No.
  263. Hemma Bieser: Um it's four letters. Um VUCA stands for volatile.
  264. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  265. Hemma Bieser: So, this is the the um
  266. Daniel Schaub: Changing.
  267. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, the the economy, um the markets we have, it's going up and down, it's volatile. U stands for uncertain. You simply don't have that um certainty. Yeah, especially as innovators, in the in the start-up world, everything is uncertain. C stands for complex.
  268. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  269. Hemma Bieser: There are no simple answers. And the fourth one is ambiguous. Yeah, so you have um
  270. Rahul Mishra: Capable to be.
  271. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  272. Hemma Bieser: Yeah, and this is so this is a term from the from the management, or from agile management, um which describes um the environment um that yeah, that we are living in, that we are working in. And somehow you you need the capability to survive in such an environment.
  273. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  274. Hemma Bieser: And that that's different from an engineering environment, yeah, where you have um all the the industry, um where you have um very clear processes, fixed um working hours.
  275. Daniel Schaub: Clear path.
  276. Hemma Bieser: And where you know, okay, you have here the input and you know what comes out at the end.
  277. Rahul Mishra: Yes.
  278. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. And in a VUCA world, you put something in, and you have no idea what will come out.
  279. Daniel Schaub: Sure. Now that you mentioned this, is a a word that it's uh in the air lately, which is resilient. You have to be resilient to to navigate this this world, right? But um could you see that being entrepreneurial is romanticized? Somehow, like you can see the or you can imagine that I want to be my own boss, and I want to be free, and everything. But they don't see the what is required.
  280. Rahul Mishra: All for the younger leaders. I mean there are a lot of a lot more people who want to become entrepreneurs.
  281. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  282. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  283. Rahul Mishra: And yeah, an entrepreneurship comes with certain sets of leadership, so what what what kind of quality? I mean, you have been mentoring a lot of people, so maybe uh some framework that people can apply.
  284. Hemma Bieser: Um so, I think that uh if you want to be an entrepreneur, it's important that you um love somehow this kind of independence.
  285. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  286. Hemma Bieser: So, many of of young entrepreneurs say, "Oh, I want to be the boss. Yeah, I don't want to work for another boss. I want to be my own uh boss."
  287. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  288. Hemma Bieser: But um if you start your business and if you have some employees and you see the bills you have to pay every month, you um get a lot of responsibility. And every every entrepreneur has to think, "Okay, can I sleep well in the night, or are there something that that keeps me awake uh in in the night?" And I see a lot of young people going to this um start-up challenges, uh pitching events, creating a lot of ideas. Um I think they love to to do that kind of innovation workshop, but when it comes to the moment, okay, now you really have to establish the company, um
  289. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  290. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  291. Daniel Schaub: All the paperwork.
  292. Hemma Bieser: All the paperwork, administration, and and work never ends, yeah. It's 24/7.
  293. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  294. Hemma Bieser: But at at the end, it's fun. Yeah, it's fun and you can uh do a lot of of of great stuff and being your own boss, working with with great people, going to conferences all over the world.
  295. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  296. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, you you mentioned that with all this responsibility there are also uh how do you call it? Like burn out.
  297. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  298. Daniel Schaub: You are like completely stressed and you collapse. How do you see the importance of mental health being an entrepreneurial, and how it could be addressed? Or what would be your recommendations?
  299. Hemma Bieser: So, my impression is that that younger people are much more relaxed than than my generation is.
  300. Daniel Schaub: Okay.
  301. Hemma Bieser: Uh my generation uh was, so that they clearly say, "Okay, I work from Monday until Thursday, or from Monday until Friday, and the weekend I have off", no? Um, but at the end, mental health is is really, really important. I can make a statement from the old Romans.
  302. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  303. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  304. Hemma Bieser: Um "mens sana in corpore sano", which means uh
  305. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  306. Hemma Bieser: health mind lives in a health body.
  307. Rahul Mishra: Yes.
  308. Daniel Schaub: Oh, wow.
  309. Hemma Bieser: Already the ancient Roman knew this. So, it's uh absolutely important that you um do sports, go outside, do some kind of um yoga, meet friends, and, yeah, um switch off your mobile phone in the evening.
  310. Rahul Mishra: Sure.
  311. Daniel Schaub: Yeah.
  312. Daniel Schaub: Okay, I think that's a good uh advice for future entrepreneurials to keep the mental health.
  313. Hemma Bieser: It's yeah, it's It's really important, yeah.
  314. Rahul Mishra: Yeah and I think that that's really tells you about agile. Being Doing, because you need to be multi- multidimensional way uh, and it takes a lot of uh energy. So,
  315. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  316. Rahul Mishra: yeah, it's a it's a brilliant advice for sure. We also need to put that
  317. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, it's in the list. In in the to-do list to make to do some uh activities, now that is summer here, or spring, it's better to be outside, so.
  318. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  319. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  320. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, to be in nature to, now the I've heard that there are some activities for kids to be in nature, like uh. Now it's a thing, like an extra activity which back in the day was natural to to be outside.
  321. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  322. Daniel Schaub: So, being in a in nature, I think it's also
  323. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  324. Rahul Mishra: We are liking it that uh here we can talk about a lot more than energy.
  325. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  326. Rahul Mishra: We love We love energy. We love energy, but uh it's also important for everyone that is energy is also part of. I I was uh looking at LinkedIn after the disruption uh
  327. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  328. Rahul Mishra: in Spain and Portugal, that on on LinkedIn, that a lot of other industries they started thinking about it, how important it is. You can actually have a lot of innovation, uh you can take everything online,
  329. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  330. Rahul Mishra: but then you need energy to keep it online, and keep it there. So, uh yeah, uh we are glad that we we are having this conversation. We We also want to tell you uh We also told you already about our initiative.
  331. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  332. Rahul Mishra: Uh why we are talking to you it's it's It's our effort to understand the energy system and the ecosystem of Central and Eastern Europe. And And we we see that there's a lot of uh a lot of uh things that has to be exposed and that has to be digged deep, so that we can we can put across what's happening here. I mean, in terms of in in Western Europe, in Scandinavia, I I've seen also in in terms of energy transition, they have gone a bit further than this region.
  333. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  334. Rahul Mishra: And uh and we need to talk about it. What do you think about our initiative at Energy Bridge?
  335. Hemma Bieser: Um, first of all, uh I like the name very much, yeah, because um building bridges is really important and it's uh you chose a really good good name.
  336. Rahul Mishra: Okay.
  337. Hemma Bieser: And um as far as I understood your initiative, you're bringing different stakeholders together from different countries.
  338. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  339. Hemma Bieser: You do a lot of information, communication, uh learning from each other, that's also really important. And um so, as far as I know, or you presented three ideas. This was um you wanted to build an online business network,
  340. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  341. Hemma Bieser: um you're organizing events like at the end of May, now.
  342. Rahul Mishra: Yes.
  343. Hemma Bieser: And uh you do uh communication, content production, like this um podcast here. I think it's good, it's crucial. Um it's also good to to bring different people, different um stakeholders together. So, young people and old people, men and women from different uh countries with different backgrounds, so more technical backgrounds, more social backgrounds, what- whatever, yeah. And if you have this diversity, yeah, then new things can um come up. Um I have two more more ideas, so I'm not sure if we already talked about it. Um one was um maybe you can also organize some kind of um matchmaking sessions, where you connect
  344. Rahul Mishra: Yeah.
  345. Hemma Bieser: uh the right people. Kind of some kind of scouting who who is here, and who wants to connect with whom.
  346. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  347. Hemma Bieser: And the second thing which I really love a lot, um these are mentoring programs. Could maybe also be one one of your ideas.
  348. Rahul Mishra: We We do have uh, and just on on your idea, and I I I am glad that you you shared with us. Uh it kind of uh aligns with our idea of experts on on demand.
  349. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  350. Rahul Mishra: Because sometimes you just need mentoring and experts when you want it, not just uh you have to look for it, but also just you are in a project, and you need it, and it's on demand.
  351. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  352. Rahul Mishra: So, yeah that's something also we are working on.
  353. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, and also we see this uh energy transition challenge. It's uh inter generational, because the professional that are ending their studies this year, for example.
  354. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  355. Daniel Schaub: Uh they're going to be They are just starting to learn everything in energy transition, and they're going to uh take a few years to know, and then they're going to work in the field 30 years until 2050, which is the big goal. And now we we have students in in schools, which are going to start now study, then after 4 or 5 years, they're going to be professionals, and then they're going to So, it's a long uh it's a huge challenge, and it's a long-term challenge.
  356. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  357. Daniel Schaub: So, we believe in knowledge transfer inter
  358. Rahul Mishra: generational
  359. Daniel Schaub: and
  360. Rahul Mishra: cross-collaboration
  361. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, and that's uh where the mentoring it's coming.
  362. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  363. Hemma Bieser: Yeah.
  364. Daniel Schaub: Because also, how to accelerate uh this uh this learning process at the beginning of, so it's uh we really take your your feedback.
  365. Hemma Bieser: Okay. Um are you more connected to the scientific community, or more to companies?
  366. Rahul Mishra: Uh so, that's where again uh our name, uh the Energy Bridge, we because we want to be the bridge between innovators,
  367. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  368. Rahul Mishra: uh which uh which is it could not just be startup and scale-up uh uh companies as such, but also uh young researchers, uh people who are working at AIT maybe, and they are working on a lot of projects, EU-funded projects or state-funded projects. Uh then policy makers, uh because they need to come on board for sure, like with everything that is happening. Academics,
  369. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  370. Rahul Mishra: uh they because they they are the brain behind everything that is going to be innovated. And then bigger industry.
  371. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  372. Rahul Mishra: Uh at the end, we also need them to adapt to the innovation, to accelerate more. So, and then uh yeah, so all of them coming together, uh and we want to be the bridge between them, all coming gathering gathering them and yeah, the whole goal is about accelerating the energy transition, but we need to gather them. Not just at one point and one conference, but rather that they are communicating with each other uh on on rather frequent basis. So, that's the whole idea about the web platform that we are building.
  373. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  374. Hemma Bieser: Okay.
  375. Daniel Schaub: Yeah, so um we are going to close this uh this parenthesis of
  376. Rahul Mishra: But not without the final thought from Emma about uh What What's your view uh of future of energy entrepreneurship, and not uh and just entrepreneurship as a whole? In Austria, you see more and more startups coming along, more international people coming along as well. How do you see the future here?
  377. Hemma Bieser: We talked about visionary leaders.
  378. Hemma Bieser: So, what what is my vision when I look at the younger generation?
  379. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  380. Hemma Bieser: Um I think that the younger generation, so also you, um you're very much influenced by um the internet, and by digital tools.
  381. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  382. Hemma Bieser: So, the world is a village.
  383. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  384. Hemma Bieser: So, that we we say it in German, "Die die Welt ist ein Dorf".
  385. Daniel Schaub: Mhm.
  386. Hemma Bieser: So, that the whole world becomes a small village, because you're connected to Taiwan, and to South Africa, and to Chile, and wherever, and you're sitting here in in Vienna. I I'm wishing that you're brave, and that you will have the courage to go your own way, and um that you start your own projects, your your business. You're doing it, yeah. But uh I would wish that we have um more people of of of your kind, and um I think we really need to get independent from the yeah, fossil fuels, from the established energy market. So, I would wish that that many people come up with new ideas, also about um how uh economy works.
  387. Rahul Mishra: Mhm.
  388. Hemma Bieser: Yeah. So, I would like to have more sustainable economy. Yeah, and um my vision is that we will really have more startups in 2030 uh here, and new models for cooperative uh economy and uh sustainable economy. So, that's my my vision for 2030. And I think you are on a good way.
  389. Hemma Bieser: You're are the best testimonials.
  390. Rahul Mishra: Thank you. Thank you, Hemma. It had been a pleasure, and thank you for being again so motivational. It's It's an honour, and thank you for the support, and we wish you hit all your targets very soon with OurPower.
  391. Hemma Bieser: Mhm.
  392. Rahul Mishra: And uh we get to talk to you all all the time. Yeah. Again, sometime when you are hitting target and so that we are the first one talking about it.
  393. Hemma Bieser: Great, let's do this.
  394. Daniel Schaub: Perfect.
  395. Hemma Bieser: And yeah, thank you very much. It was very interested interesting to talking to you, and all the best for the Energy Bridge.
  396. Daniel Schaub: Thank you.
  397. Rahul Mishra: Thank you.
  398. Daniel Schaub: Thank you. So, this is uh It was our interview with Emma and we really wanted to interview because of your passion in this topic, and how you do uh your ability to communicate. That's uh that's very important. So, uh this was the episode for today and we invite you to stay tuned, and um ready for the next episode. So, see you next time.
  399. Rahul Mishra: Thank you.
  400. Hemma Bieser: See you.
  401. Daniel Schaub: Bye bye.