S1E15

Powering the Grid: How Flexibility is Changing Energy Trading | Max Kloess, @OekostromAt|TEB S1E15

with Maximillian Kloess· Oekostrom· 44m

TL;DR

Oekostrom's trading director discusses how market flexibility, policy stability, and cross-border integration are crucial for Europe's renewable energy transition.

Synopsis

Oekostrom, an Austrian 100% renewable utility, emphasizes the critical role of market flexibility and demand-side management in integrating fluctuating renewables. Maximillian Kloess, their trading director, details how products like "smart span" address price volatility by incentivizing consumers to shift demand, particularly for heat pumps and EV charging. He also highlights the challenges posed by policy uncertainty and bureaucratic delays, particularly in Austria's new electrical law, which could hinder necessary investments in storage and grid infrastructure. Kloess advocates for market-driven support schemes, cross-border cooperation, and a shift in grid tariffs to a fixed fee model to support the accelerating electrification of heat and transport.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 7

3,000
Oekostrom shareholders
100 MW
Oekostrom installed capacity
120,000
Oekostrom customers
13 years
Wind farm permitting time
Doubling
Household consumption with EV
21-22%
Global electrification share
70-80%
Austria renewable share (1999)

Topics

8 tags

Market flexibilityDemand-side managementEnergy tradingRegulatory frameworkGrid infrastructureRenewable integrationElectrificationPolicy uncertainty

Stats

Duration: 44m
Words: 6.1k
Questions: 18

Timeline

9 chapters

Guest's Journey into Energy
Maximillian Kloess describes his academic background in industrial engineering and energy economics, leading to his role at Oekostrom since 2012.
Oekostrom's Origins and Business Model
Kloess explains Oekostrom's founding in the late '90s, born from anti-nuclear and liberalization movements, becoming a 100% renewable utility with 3, 000 shareholders and three pillars: production, sales, and trading.
Addressing Flexibility with 'Smart Span'
Discussion on the challenge of integrating fluctuating renewables and extreme price volatility. Oekostrom's 'smart span' product incentivizes customers to shift demand (heat pumps, EV charging) to low-price hours.
Policy and Regulatory Challenges in Austria
Kloess expresses concern over a shift towards more public sector involvement and uncertain framework conditions, which increase investment risk and slow down the energy transition.
Critique of the New Austrian Electrical Law
The proposed law's grid tariffs for new storage units are seen as disincentivizing flexibility, and general bureaucracy is slowing down project realization, especially for wind farms and power lines.
AI's Role in Energy Trading
AI has high potential in power trading for pattern identification, forecasting, streamlining processes, and data analysis due to its strong link with weather and large data volumes.
Importance of Cross-Border Cooperation
Kloess emphasizes that the European energy transition requires thinking beyond national borders, as renewable energy availability fluctuates regionally, necessitating interconnected grids.
Future of Grid Tariffs and Electrification
Grid tariffs will likely shift to a fixed fee for connection, potentially with charges for peak consumption, to reflect grid maintenance costs and incentivize system-friendly consumption patterns amid increasing electrification.
Advice for New Professionals
Kloess advises new professionals to be open-minded, continuously learn, adapt to fast-developing markets, and maintain idealism despite challenges in the rewarding energy transition field.

Key insights

5 takeaways

01
Flexibility Lags Renewable Capacity Growth
The rapid build-up of wind and PV capacity has outpaced the development of flexibility solutions, leading to significant price volatility and market inefficiency.
02
Policy Uncertainty Hinders Investment
Unstable regulatory frameworks, including changing tariffs and new taxes on high revenues, increase financing costs and deter long-term investments in critical energy infrastructure and generation.
03
Grid Tariffs Must Incentivize Flexibility
Current grid tariff structures in Austria do not adequately incentivize storage and new flexible units, potentially slowing down the integration of renewables and the overall energy transition.
04
Electrification is Decarbonization's Core
Achieving deep decarbonization (80-100%) across sectors like transport and heat fundamentally relies on electrification, with hydrogen serving as an electricity-derived storage medium.
05
Cross-Border Integration is Non-Negotiable
For a stable, renewable European energy system, national borders are irrelevant; energy must be able to flow across countries to balance intermittent generation and demand.

Pull quotes

6 quotes

U flexibility is lacking behind. So the next challenge will be to cover that close the gap.
Maximillian Kloess
Only independent market participants actually did drive that development.
Maximillian Kloess
I would also see a bit like uncertain framework conditions. Yeah. So if you do an investment for 10 20 years and you think the conditions are stable and if regulation is changed and tariffs are imposed or changed this affects massively u your investment costs
Maximillian Kloess
So it would be very beneficial for the power system if the grid tariffs would incentivize flexibility. and at the moment in the drafts we know this is not the case.
Maximillian Kloess
Yeah power lines are the worst. so they need decades. this has to be speed up
Maximillian Kloess
If you just take the pure technical or economic perspective on it, it's just the most efficient way to supply the future energy we need for the new processes.
Maximillian Kloess

Transcript946 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

Welcome to a new interview here in the
bridge. Today we are in the office of
Orchestrom in Vienna and today we have
the pleasure to have Maximleian Claus as
you told me the managing director of
trading for Orchestrom. So thank you
very much for having us here today and
for having this interview. Yeah,
thank you for the opportunity to talk
about interesting
aspects here. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Maximillian. To start with,
we always start with starting from
the education, how you got into energy.
Could you tell us about your journey and
getting to where you are right now?
>> Okay. So, yeah, how did you get into the
energy sector? Well, I stud I studied
industrial engineering and management at
technical university of Vienna and
there finishing my master I got the
opportunity to start as a researcher in
the institute of energy economics
where yeah was working on research
projects in the field did some
teaching on the field of energy
economics and that got me a from the
engineering more into the economics in
the special field of energy economics
which I found very fascinating
yeah did my PhD there and
>> with professor H yeah
>> hello
>> yeah thank you big thank you to
professor H
who I yeah owe a lot here and then
luckily like in 2012 I decided
okay I switched from from research to
the energy industry. got the chance
to start at Ukostom which yeah back then
was a very small player but also a very
interesting and promising company
because was in my opinion in the
right field and a lot of growth and
buildup work to do
>> in 2012.
>> That was in 2012 end of 2012. So yeah
almost 13 years
>> wow
>> I've been working here I was always in
the energy economics department u there
responsible for the purchasing trading
renewable sourcing portfolio management
like we were just like a few people
there doing pretty much everything what
a utility has to cover.
in 2015 we founded a trading
subsidiary. so this been 10 years ago
the company I'm now managing
director of is has been active and
now I would say
>> one of the three main pillars in the
group. So the trading is covered by
that. So we developed and got more like
more and more professional
portfolio expanded. This is what brought
me here.
>> Yeah. something that why we were
interested to interview you. It's also
as a company we made a bit of research
and it was born after the anti-uclear
movement in the end of the '90s. It's
now the largest independent utility
100% renewable and we read that you have
3, 000 shareholders. So how does that
work?
>> Yeah, I would say is a product of
of two things. So it's like said the
renewable anti-uclear renewable movement
plus a product of the liberalization
that just started then. So there was a
moment a window of opportunity first you
could like found there was the chance
to have an independent utility. So
before that in the in the 1990s and
before that it was all like public
sector big public owned companies.
and then you could actually do that.
Yeah. like found a supplier, build your
own production assets. So there was
also like the new production
technologies, solar, wind that weren't
there in this form before and this
opened this window of opportunity. And
I'd say it's was a lucky moment that
a group of people found the idea to
to found this company, shareholder
company, build the first wind parks,
found a supplier, get first customers
and get it going whenever no one else
had
saw this opportunity. So being the first
mover back then and that was I think a
big thing and this is our DNA until
today.
>> Amazing. And it started with from the
very beginning that 100% renewable.
>> Yeah. There was always the idea to prove
okay it is possible to supply customers
with 100% renewable electricity and is
still our mission. Yeah.
>> Yeah. and you mentioned that that
you have three pillars and you own the
the power plants you also trade. So
what are the pillars and how does it
work in internally?
>> Exactly. So as you said we have the
production pillar with the production
comp company that has like u wind farms
and PV farms in Austria neighboring
countries. So we have in Germany, Czech
Republic, Slovakia
we own assets. Then we have sales. So
we're supplying around 120, 000 customers
with renewable electricity in Austria.
And in the middle we have the trading
subsidiary who's responsible on the one
hand for renewable sourcing from our
from our production but also from third
party a lot from third party. On the
other hand we're doing the
purchasing for the sales portfolio.
>>. So we are actually the link to
the market for the group and have our
own business. So by sourcing and re
reselling to other retailers in
Austrian country in Austria and
neighboring countries. So this is our
field
and by that we are a fully integrated
utility company covering all these all
the these things u sales production
and in the middle the trading. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And as a business model, I suppose
that you are thinking also in storage in
the future.
>> Yeah., storage is definitely a
very important link to for to
integrate renewable assets.,
we're dealing with PV and wind mainly.
It's fluctuating renewables.
So the challenge will be how to
integrate them and storage and all kinds
of flexibilities will be the next big
challenge. Yeah. So
the build up of capacities of
wind and PV was very fast. Yeah.
Especially like accelerated massively
the last years.
>>.
>> And
u flexibility is lacking behind. So the
next challenge will be to cover that
close the gap.
>> what what is the capacity right now?
currently with okone production
>> in home production I think we have we
roughly have 100 megawatt installed of
wind and PV. This is only partly
covering our own demand of our
customers and the rest of the energy
needed is acquired from from third
parties
and this is why also our challenge in
the trading is to find new suppliers. So
we are talking to operators of hydro
power plants wind farms, solar plants
all over Austria to source the
electricity that we require to yeah
to supply our customers.
>> You source the renewable part within
Austria or then
>> we currently source within Austria. So
this is our our market at the moment.
We're looking into other markets but at
the moment we're still like only
operating in Austria on the on the
sourcing side and on the sales side
whereas on the production side as said
we are also in other countries
>> and one of the topics that also arises
in the in the forums that we are
organizing it's flexibility and
market deteration. So in the flexibility
side you have this smart span. So
if you could tell us how does it work?
What is your idea?
>> Yeah so smart span is one of our
products that aim on the on the topic of
flexibilization in the power system and
in this case it's flexibleization of
demand. So we have the problem and that
we have volatility
of production and that's also
reflected into extreme price volatility.
So depending whether there is a lot
of renewable feed in on a sunny day or
or a lot of wind on a on a on windy
days
the prices fluctuate a lot. Yeah.
And we also see now as it's getting
colder outside, we see during the day
volatility. We see evening peaks of
several hundreds of euros and then we
see in midday during midday like
prices close to zero
>> and this is a big challenge to everyone
to all market players and is a bit of
shows a bit like the efficiency that we
currently inefficiency that we have in
the market because we don't have in a
say in a flexible system these spreads
would be used.
>>. But it shows there is not enough
flexibility yet. And this brings us to
smart Japan. So we think our
customers should also be incentivized to
benefit from this spread. So in just to
avoid buying at peak evening hours,
peak price evening hours and shifting
demand to low price hours.
And the problem is
it is like difficult to do that
manually and this is when something like
smart comes into play where like an
automated system controls your flexible
loads. So we're talking about heat load,
heat pumps and vehicle charging for
instance
>> which is big demand in the household
would be like the biggest demand units
and they could be easily be flexibleized
and this is what we addressing. So the
the customer shouldn't have to worry
about it. It's just like something that
automatically happens and this is a
solution that we offer for that and we
think that this is an important step for
the integration or it's in involve
the consumer also. Yeah, it's a bit
related with how do you call it
demand control
>> also right like how to balance
>> exactly yeah
>> that's good
>> so yeah in economic terms we have
flexibility in the production in the
supply but we have a inflex inflexible
and inelastic demand curve and the next
challenge will be to get an elastic
demand curve and this will be either by
consumers to react which spot smart is
part of but also as you said earlier
storage is a key technology here and
this is going to be also I think u the
next should be the next big thing
like get more storage in the system
>> one more thing that more and more
getting important it's independent
players getting access to the market
what do you what do you think of that
>> yeah as in yeah liberization is
is a key element I think this
whole energy the transition that we're
experiencing that like now is wouldn't
be possible without liberization. Yeah.
So
only independent
market participants
actually did drive that development.
Yeah. So would that be would that be
still a public sector the technological
learning in PV and wind would never have
happened. Yeah. So I think it is very
important to have these independent
privately owned shareholder owned
companies here because they drive
development they drive innovation and
this is what the last decades proved and
yeah getting a bit into the
political field I feel it's in Austria
it's a bit like shifting towards more
public again which is always a risk here
like could like slow down development
>> and in this price volatility that
you mentioned which business model
you see are the more profitable like I
mean I think at the moment like looking
at the price curves you see like if you
have something flexible and can can do
load shifting it is extremely
profitable right now especially like if
you take the last years on is still
ongoing. Yeah. So in my opinion like any
type of flexibility is extremely
promising right now. So the question is
how it develops. Yeah.
>> Because of course the more flexibility
you bring into the market the less
attractive the market gets. Yeah.
Because flexibility also flattens out
the price
>> curve.
>> And in theory at some point yeah the
price curve will be flat. Yeah. what I
wanted to understand like about the
whole balancing part and you
mentioned that that that it's getting
more centralized again somehow
>> no it's just like we see that we
still have u in the power system in the
energy sector we still have like we have
independent players
>> and we have public publicly owned
players yeah and they are like state
own, federal, state owned and so there
is a politic interest
to like that these actors have a better
playing field let's say let's put it
like this
>> rather than and this is kind of a bit
in conflict with the idea of
liberization have an even playing field
>> so
>> like pre-ompetition
>> precompetition yeah so we see
developments in the production fields
that benefit
>> publicly owned players.
>> Okay.
>> And also we see I think I would also see
a bit like uncertain framework
conditions. Yeah. So if you do an
investment for 10 20 years and you
think the conditions are stable and if
regulation is changed and tariffs are
imposed or changed
this affects massively u your investment
costs because yeah any like a bank would
say listen like we saw like they change
the conditions every year so financing
costs would increase in this case and
this is a bit what we're facing. Yeah.
So, extra taxes for high revenues are
imposed. Yeah. But the
opportunity to have higher revenues at
some point in these 10 years I
calculated is part of the business plan.
Yeah.
>> And if I have to if I do an investment
and the profitable profitable times are
taken out.
>> Yeah. Why to invest?
>> Yeah. So this is a bit a problem. And
this is also where at the end less
investment is going to be investment
gets more expensive and less investment
is going to be done and transitions
going to is slowed down. And this is
what we're facing.
>> Yeah. Now that you touched that point
about the current situation in Austria,
there is a discussion of the new
electrical law. H how do you see it or
what have you heard from the utility
side and generation sides?
it's still still in discussion
has been in discussion for a long time.
we talked about the topic of
storage and flexibility.
So there is the grid tariffs for these
units.
>>.
>> So it would be very beneficial for the
power system if the grid tariffs would
incentivize
flexibility. and at the moment in the
drafts we know this is not the case. So
it's been distinguished between the big
storage units that we already have the
hydro ones publicly owned of course and
the new ones. So the new units should
pay actually plan to have higher
tariffs. It's not clear why and this is
definitely not incentivizing the
flexibilization of the grid which is a
key to the transition is a problem.
and in general stable framework
conditions. Yeah. So we have we're
facing at the moment a lot of
bureaucracy in generally slowing down
any project here. Yeah. So projects take
too long in particularly wind projects
from the planning to the grid connection
time. This has to be
>> we interviewed Herbert Brandner from Vin
Energy and he was telling us about the
13 year that took for them to start a
wind farm.
>> Yeah, I imagine. Yeah, it's just like
it's taken way way too long. Yeah. And
this is also taken Austria like
Europe as a as a place to have future
industry. we need we need cheap
energy. Yeah. But cheap energy for to
have cheap energy you need capacity.
Yeah. And if you slow down the build up
of this capacity you're not helping
you're not even helping the industry you
know. any catering any industry as well
or the 100, 000 people that you said are
all homeowners or
>> Yeah, it's mainly it's it's mainly
homeowners and small businesses. So,
>> typically yeah industry we're not
supplying any industry yet. We will
maybe in the future we're still growing
and this could be possible but at the
moment it's home owners and small
industry
>> seeing in the future in order to
decarbonize faster from from your
position as generator and utility will
we focus more
>> into the grid upgrade or into
distributed generation or other
measure?
Well, I think it probably needs both,
like what we did so
far, I must say, is we had a grid that
was quite good.
>> Yeah, it was. And we connected, we
connected more and more and until it
got too much and then we started
strengthening the lines. Yeah. Like
expanding the lines. So, a lot is
happening.
But in general the problem was expanding
the capacity is way fast still way
faster than building big power lines.
Yeah. So talking about long processes
of getting
projects from planning to
realization.
yeah power lines are the worst. so
they need decades. this has to be
speed up and it's it's it has to
be it has to be both. Yeah. So a
renewable power system is a
combination of a well interconnected
grid with distributed generation. Yeah.
So you will always have the challenge
of getting the energy somewhere like
because like taken Europe as a whole
there's always renewable energy
somewhere and it's going to be the
chance that it is exactly where it's
needed is very low. so you have to
shift it somehow
and this is this is part of the
of the concept. Yeah. So a lot of the
time people think that trading it just
reacting to the price volatility that is
going on in the market but how can it
also trading desk because you're
managing it that also support grid
innovation or grid modernization
somehow.
>> Yeah I would say in
trading you have very stiff
competition and I think competition is
always a driver of innovation. Yeah. So
I would say every
trading every player in the trading
field is always striving to have the
newest technology in place to get an
like economic an advantage
against other players in the market
and thereby I would say we're using the
the most recent means we have available
to have this economic advantage.
antage or this
>> competitive advantage.
>> Yeah. And I can imagine that you used
to trade a lot, maybe now not much, but
what is the thing that you like the
most of trading energy?
Well, it's an interesting I'm
come from the engineering field and I
think it is it is very interesting this
interconnections by like the technical
aspect coming power being generated
somewhere to manifesting
into contracts to yeah realizing
generating revenues and back and forth
and this also like decision taking risk.
it's a very highly analytic
system. Yeah. And it's about like
>> it's cost benefit risk patterns and
Yeah. if you're an engineer into
figures it's fascinating. Yeah. You get
caught by it
>> and when you think about traders
everyone like sees like a gambler or
something. I would say this is
definitely not it. It's
>> if you're good you're like you're just
like it's purely analytic. Yeah. you
analyze risk patterns
and this is how you derive your
decisions and
and that's makes it also fascinating. I
mean we're in the trading field we have
a lot of engineering profiles we have
yeah like industrial engineers like me
electrical engineers we have physicists
mathematicians this is often the pattern
you have and these kind of people get
caught in this field and yeah definitely
you have to like numbers
>> yeah and in
in the year 2025 AI it's big
game changer. So how do you see the
integration of AI into trading market?
>> Yeah, it has a very high
potential. It's
well power trading is very strongly
linked to weather forecasting like in
forecasts it's also like reading
patterns and deriving
findings how the weather is going to
be in the next time unit. Yeah. And I
mean one aspect like of AI can very is
very good at identifying patterns
and
so I think there's a very wide field
of applications you can use AI in and I
mean so in this field like forecasting
trading decisions reading out patterns
of huge data volumes
back to getting processes streamlining
processes like things that have been
done had to be done manually. So the
classical AI in workflow processes
up to like pattern identification, data
analysis. So it's a wide field. Yeah.
>>. But just going back one question
that I wanted to ask about that
Austria has a from the energy bridge
we are very much focused also on the
eastern European side and
Austria has historical context with
those countries and it should be a role
model for energy transition as well
for such countries. So Austria had some
support scheme for renewable energy but
do you see any lesson that other
countries could learn from the support
scheme that Austria has?
Yeah, it's Austria had its
learnings from the past and yeah we
we're coming from like not market
non-marketbased support scheme simple
feeding tariffs shifted to market
premium models. what is
definitely important is if you start
today if you design a support scheme it
has to be market driven. we see
the challenges it u production has to be
incentivized rather to feed in at times
where it makes sense and not to feed in
where it makes no sense at all. So this
is this is important and then yeah
and I guess it's also
in incentivizing also I think the right
technology that suits the demand.
>>.
>> So we have the tendency like I'd
say maybe
the PV extension was very rapid.
Let's put it this way. like maybe too
rapid as to be properly integrated in
the grid. I think also there can
learnings can be drawn. in my
like we see that wind is more
suitable to the demand pattern being
more available in winter months. So
there has to be like a good equilibrium
between the technologies and this should
also be incentivized
by the support scheme to have the right
mix of technology
>> and also you mentioned that you're
not sourcing currently or is not
sourcing from other countries but
you're generating in other countries and
do you see more crossber cooperation as
such? We are also at the moment looking
into neighboring markets whether
to start sourcing there as well. So
it's getting more and more integrated I
say. So we already is also having an
office in Bratislava.
So there we have I would say we're one
step already there and it would be
interesting for us also to maybe have
at some point also sales and trading in
these countries
and in generally yeah we see I think
this is the way we're heading you
have you can't think with the energy
transition in Europe you can't think in
nations by itself
because it makes no sense. Austria is
tiny still and it will it will be
necessary to think over the borders
because only this way it will work as I
said like it's there will always be some
renewable power somewhere in Europe
but we will there's moments
definitely where we have close to zero
renewables in a moment in Austria And
this is when the integration comes into
place.
>> Yeah. And now maybe moving to the
future. How you how you see it? There is
also a discussion regarding that the
more the people is generating their own
energy. They are buying less from the
grid. Thus the who is paying the grid at
the end because the utilities are
getting less. you from your position
from gener like a generating and being a
utility. How do you see the
>> yeah I think yeah great tariff should
shift and in my opinion will definitely
shift to like a fixed fee if you're
connected. Yeah. So the idea the concept
of the grid tariff being calculated on
the kilowatt hour consumed. I can't work
in a in a in a world where you sub
substitute your grid consumption by your
own production.
>>.
>> Because if you take a household
with a PV system compared with one with
not without. Yeah. So the
cost to maintain the grid is the same
for both on a grid operator
perspective. Yeah. If not the PV house
cons needs more read cost there because
it kind of goes in all directions.
So it will end up being like this
like at the moment yeah it's more and
more like the ones that don't have a PV
are supporting are paying the bill for
the others. This can't be it and that
won't be it. And I think there's already
developments in this direction. So this
is definitely going to come as long as
you're grid connected you will have a
fixed fee and on the other end
like this it would be also interesting
they have that in other countries like
you
you charge for peak consumption
the higher like the peak is you create
in the system by a load peak you
generate by I don't know like charging
your cars like this should also be
reflected in your grid costs so just
like in order to incentivize
the consumer to have a more like
system friendly consumption pattern.
>>.. Yeah. And also thinking in the
future B2G is coming like to supply
energy from the electric cars to the
grid. Also we spoke about AI in energy
sector. which other thing
or other eruption you see in the
market that can be a game changer
in the future in the next years.
Electric vehicles are definitely a big
change because like an household
that has an electric car is typically
doubling its electricity consumption
more or less and having a big flexible
load that could be a potential that
could be tapped by vehicle to grid to
vehicle. So this is a big thing like the
diffusion of electric cars in the market
and then is the shift in the heat
sector. We have a lot of heating from
mother systems, oil heings, gas heating
is very very very common in Vienna.
So the shifting of the heat demand to
the electric sector will be a challenge
but also a chance because it's a
potentially flexible load and which yeah
we address with our smart ban solution.
So this will be a big thing.
Interestingly we have we hear all the
all the way this data centers. So
the consumption of data processing.
Yeah. these data centers are
obviously not so much here in our
country or in Europe. Maybe they are
somewhere else but in the future
we will need them. They will be also
part of a strategic independent. Yeah.
So we can't have the data centers having
somewhere else. So at some point they
have to be here and they will be a
consumer and this will be factors to be
considered and I think a bit further
maybe also like flexibilization of
demand. our
all our production processes are still
like
not oriented towards the power price.
Yeah. So they just produce when they
always did. Yeah. So the concept
of I produce when it's cheap because
there is sun or wind or whatever is not
this is not there to this extent yet
with something energy intensive industry
is something that could also consider
like kind of try shifting
demand and their demand and
production time therefore to hours where
electricity is cheap or seasons where
electricity is cheap And this is will
will create a lot of changes. we
see it nowadays. So the
difference between in terms of price
between a winter winter months and
summer months is increasing every year.
it's kind of getting more extreme.
The so we have the price difference
between seasons and within a day the
price difference between evening peaks.
So the volatility and demand is not
yet reacting to the extent it could and
will have to at some state.
>> Are you somehow also talking about
different stakeholders like maybe
district heating networks and the
industrial heat pump they could be using
the
>> everything that is
has flexibility like could produce on
storage. Yeah. like something you
produce and can store, you can shift.
something that has to be fresh and
delivered straight away. Yeah, you have
to do it when it's when it's required
and but there is definitely processes
that can be shifted and will be shifted.
Yeah. And yeah, we try to stress the
the fact that we are 21 22% electrified
in our consumption as a I think global
average
Europe is a bit more but how do you see
the electrification path and peace
>> it will be will be a continuous growth
of the share of electrification because
electricity
provides the based
energy carrier if we call it like
this to decarbonize like take
transport like
with gasoline or diesel you can
decarbonize using liquid hydrocarbons
like biodeiesel whatever but only to
some extent yeah decarbonization
can only be achieved with electric
system may maybe hydrogen but it's
basically also electricity converted in
other storage form. So it's about the
decarbonization
potential. So if we're aiming as a
global society
to 100% decarbonization in theory or
let's call it 80%. It only goes through
electricity only works through
electricity or hydrogen/ electricity.
It's a storage question.
>> Yeah. my opinion it's not a
philosophical it's just like at the end
it's always electricity.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The end.
>> Just also focus room is one of its
kind or just about 100% renewable
that you have but are they do you have
competitors or like are there such
initiative and companies in Austria and
around? Yeah, Austria is it's
nowadays everyone tries to be 100%
renewable and it's just like if you're
selling to households is almost a
mustave. Yeah.
>> historically in Austria we have a
lot of hydropower we always had. Yeah.
We have the D rivers, we have the
mountains with storage units everything.
So we look back into 1999 when we
started already then I think we were pro
probably in Austria 80% 70 to 80%
renewable share
>> but there was this 30% to be covered and
now it's just the aim is to get that to
zero yeah close to zero what
always a question of economic efficiency
but
and selling to households and you
have to have to have in mind that the
household is like roughly 30% of the
electricity demand. and a household
decision maker wants to have a 100%
renewable power supplier. You can say
this is a mustave. There's different
ways you can cover that. we do it a
lot with the new renewables just to
prove okay. We have sources that have
been installed in the last years.
It's the so-called new renewables.
but with the hydro power plants we
have in Austria, you can like yeah
easily cover all the households. But the
challenge will still be to get as I
said demand increases. We have the
electric vehicles, we have the heat
sector to cover all these. that won't
work with our hydro plants that they
will need PV and wind and this is when
we come into play and it's it's it will
be a challenge still to have this
100% coverage in the next years.
>> So speaking about the all the
challenge that we have ahead there are
many new professionals getting into the
market into the sector the energy
sector. Would you have some advices for
these new professionals just starting
the their journey?
>> Yeah, advice is just like I think
it's it's a fascinating field. That's my
perspective. It is a big project. Yeah.
So we're in the midst of a big
transition project. maybe in 1500
years when they look back they said okay
this is a big achievement. Mh.
>> So we definitely I feel we're big be a
part of a big development no matter
where you are in this because so and
yeah you have to
be prepared. It's a it's a fast
developing market yeah field. So what
you use the tools you use now might be
obsolete in a few years. So you have to
be prepared to continuously adapt and
continuously learn and use new
methods, new technologies,
remain flexible
and but it's definitely rewarding
>> and challenging and yeah
I think yeah it's yeah it's a lot of
fun. Yeah, it's fun. And something that
you would like to share like to for
the community that it's a it's a chance
to share.
>> Yeah, Okay. So a statement. Yeah.
it's just like Yeah. So the
community is Yeah. new future
professionals be open-minded, be be
learning, be curious, and yeah, don't
lose your idealism. There's going to be
Yeah. tough resistances
when you're going in business. It's hard
drive valleys to pass until you get up
again and reach the peak. So, but it's
going to be rewarding and it's it's a
big program and it's a big project, big
challenge and I can clearly recommend
it. And just closing on going
forward do you have any goals for next
five years that you think going
forward for this sector within or
that you would like to achieve?
>> we are intorm and for the next 5
years is definitely expanding our
production capacity
getting more customers
accessing new trading markets. I said
we're currently in Austria. who want to
be also in neighboring countries. This
is for us and for the system. I
hope that we have a general
understanding. I think when it comes
to the future energy system, renewables
is just the best. It's just the best
way, . It's just like this is
not a an ideological question. So if you
just take the pure technical or economic
perspective on it, it's just the most
efficient way to supply the future
energy we need for the new processes.
Data processing, mobility, heat,
>> the renewable way is this is the way to
go. And
I hope we will have a common
understanding in Europe also in the
world and in my opinion maybe this one I
think don't believe to the nuclear
promise. Yeah,
>> it is it is misleading and it has
hidden costs that no one tells you about
that future generations will to bear
will have to bear and the only
responsible way and the least cost way
is renewable power and that's what we
stand for. So from here from an
idealistic company that started with a
purpose and he has stood with the
principles. Thank you very much for
this conversation. yeah we are
looking forward to know more about
you in the future how is evolving
everything.
>> Yeah thank you for the talk. Thank you
so much.
>> Thank you.
>> And thank you to the community for
watching the interview until the end.
And stay tuned for the next episode.
Bye.

Powering the Grid: How Flexibility is Changing Energy Trading | Max Kloess, @OekostromAt|TEB S1E15

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