Season 1

Bosnia and Herzegovina's Transition:Coal to Renewables through Collaboration with Dr.Mirza Kušljugić

with Dr. Mirza Kušljugić· University of Tuzla· 35m

TL;DR

Bosnia's energy transition faces challenges but has significant renewable potential.

Synopsis

Dr. Mirza Kušljugić discusses the complexities of Bosnia's energy transition from coal to renewables, emphasizing the need for tailored policies. He highlights the region's substantial renewable energy potential, particularly in hydropower, and the importance of collaboration among stakeholders.

Key metrics

by the numbers · 5

50-60%
Household energy consumption
2.5-5 TWh
Electricity export volume
700 MW
Solar capacity developed
4 GW
Solar capacity in pipeline
100 MW
First battery deployment

Topics

3 tags

energy transitionrenewable potentialregional collaboration

Stats

Duration: 35m
Words: 4.8k
Questions: 14

Timeline

7 chapters

Introduction of Dr. Kušljugić
Dr. Kušljugić introduces his background and role in the energy sector.
Challenges in Energy Transition
Discussion on the political and economic challenges faced in Bosnia's energy transition.
Renewable Energy Potential
Highlighting Bosnia's potential for renewable energy sources, especially hydropower.
Private Sector Involvement
Overview of private sector contributions to renewable energy development.
Decentralized Energy Transition
Discussion on pilot projects and decentralized energy initiatives.
EU Support Needs
Identifying key support needed from the EU for Bosnia's energy transition.
Battery Storage Importance
Emphasizing the role of battery storage in the energy transition.

Key insights

5 takeaways

01
Bosnia's renewable potential is vast
Bosnia has the potential to be fully renewable in power, heating, and transport, particularly through hydropower.
02
Political clarity is essential
A clear political direction is necessary for effective implementation of energy transition policies.
03
Private sector leads in renewables
The private sector is responsible for a significant portion of renewable capacity development in Bosnia.
04
EU support is crucial
Bosnia requires tailored EU support for both top-down and bottom-up energy transition initiatives.
05
Battery storage is a game changer
Battery storage will play a critical role in enhancing grid flexibility and supporting renewable integration.

Pull quotes

3 quotes

In the region is 50 to 60%.
Dr. Kušljugić
In the pipeline you have 2 gawatt of wind 80% private you have 4 gawatt of solar.
Dr. Kušljugić
We are trying to promote cooperation.
Dr. Kušljugić

Transcript879 cuesClick a timestamp to jump

So
mentally you're stuck in the fossil fuel
and you don't see that future is
renewable.
Here we go.
Hello. So welcome to a new interview in
the energy bridge. Today we have
Professor Mitsra
>> Miraza.
>> Mira and your last name is
>> Kugich. It's a little bit difficult.
>> Okay. it's a colleague electrical
engineer from
University of Tusla. Tusla
>> Tusla
>> and from Bosnia and Pergoina. Right.
>> Right.
>> Okay. Amazing. So we are very excited
to interview you because you were
moderating a panel here in Belgrad
energy forum and we were researching a
bit about your work but we want to know
you how has been the challenge being
electrical engineer in energy sector in
Bosnia in western Balkcans. so yeah
if you could tell us a bit about you
your beginning in the sector studies and
then to know you
>> okay so let's go backwards so I am
here representing regional sustainable
energy transition center
>> it was reset yes it was established 5
years ago
idea was that there is a need for
continuous
activity
aiming to impact policy makers that the
energy transition should be sustainable
not market driven.
>> Yeah.
>> Not chaotic which unfortunately we see
in the region. So we started as a think
tank
usually policy papers you publish you
have some donors who support you we
we've been working with European
climate foundation and open society
foundation and another foundations who
support that activity in the region. But
then at a certain moment we decided that
we have to do a little bit more and now
we are pretending or hoping to develop
as a research base think and do thing.
So what do we do? We do pilot projects.
We do new new concepts. We try to prove
that even in the western balkcons in the
countries that we cover six countries
it's possible to modify European models
foreign models
>> and to adopt it to the local
>> environment. So my background I'm a
power engineer. I was a professor at the
University of Tusla. Now I'm professor
emmeritus in exactly power systems.
>> But also also in my previous life was
little bit involved in politics.
>> Okay.
>> And in diplomacy.
So at a certain moment you see that
maybe priority should be given in the
region to policy not the politics
because policy usually here is transport
from EU
>> which is wrong.
>> Yeah from Brussels
>> you cannot you cannot use the same
policies. Okay, you can use a key but
you cannot use the same policies in the
region where for example in European
Union countries you had 25% of the
consumption in a household in the region
is 25%.
>> 25
>> in the region is 50 to 60%. Wow.
>> So it's different. It's different
system.
>> You have good distribution networks in
Europe. You have poor distribution
networks here. So there are there are
specific challenges. There are also
specific opportunities especially
regarding renewable energy. So we are
trying to come up with the documents
with presentations at the conferences
and to I would say initiate serious
serious approach
>> to very complex process which we call
energy revolution
>> which was the title of the panel today.
>> Energy revolution. Yeah. A major if you
could explain a bit more about what are
the regional challenges, what are the
regional opportunities.
>> Okay. You have a complex process. I
mean it's part of the technology
revolution. So it's complex. It's
radical. So you have political,
economic, social, technical, legal,
environmental very complex issues
and you have to identify which are
the bottlenecks.
This region has never been part of front
runner in technological changes.
>> It's always follower historically.
>>.
>> So we cannot really contribute to
developing new technologies.
This region also cannot finance from the
internal resources big transformation
like energy. We depend on
>> foreign money or EU assistance etc. So
how do you combine what you don't have
with something which is necessary to
implement.
>>.
>> Obviously the first condition is
political which is very problematic
here.
There is no clear decision that it's the
direction where people want to go. Our
government sign agreements they through
the energy community agree on everything
but when implement implementation come
you see that they are still stuck stuck
in the past. So we are trying to impact
policy maker decision makers
>> and also major if you if you could
first explain a bit about the energy mix
scenario there then we can go into the
opportunity then
>> okay then you get to the you get to
the advantage of the region so what's
the potential of the region for energy
transition we are as it is known stuck
in the coal at the moment but when you
look potential of renewable sources is
specifically broken is probably the
country in Europe which has potential to
be fully renewable not only in power
>> but to be fully renewable in heating and
transport.
>> Wow. How how so?
>> Hydro power
>> resources in Boston are comparable with
Norway.
>> Okay.
>> Excellent.
Flexible
>> nice
>> seasonal.
>> Yeah.
>> Wind very good. solar and the space
>> biomass
>> even geothermal. So basically when you
look at the arena studies and you see
the boss it's plenty small
country not big consumption not too many
people so
mentally you are stuck in fossil fuel
and you don't see that future is
renewable and you import gas you import
oil and you say we are for energy
sovereignity you are energy sovereignity
you import to important fossil fuels
because you are stuck in a coal as a
traditional.
>> How much energy that the region had
to import?
>> Bosnia government imports all oil and
all gas but we export electricity but
that's export from thermal power plants.
So Boston is the biggest exporter in
relative terms in Europe.
>>.
>> It's between 2.5 and five gawatt
terowatt hours. So which is let's say
one/ird of our production now it will be
problematic
>> one third
>> one third of our production is only for
export EU
>> for export
>> it goes to the EU.
>>.
>> Okay. It's mainly from thermal power
plants with the new regulation of carbon
pricing with the sea bomb. It will be
complicated
and at the same time you have very vital
private sector who is developing
renewable
wind.
>>.
>> Half half public companies have
developed so far half capacity and
private sector developed half the
capacity. Don't forget that the public
sector has doesn't need PPAs. they have
consumption they are supplier and the
private they have to do it on the market
they have to provide flexibility it's
much more challenging and when you
consider solar
it's for the last 3 years around 700
megawatt which is the biggest in the
region
>> private 100% all private
>> one is maybe 100 is a feeding
tariff which was now on a market about
250 a large scale private
>>.
>> and about 350 is something which I'm
very proud of. It's production for
self consumption of small and mediumsiz
enterprises 350 megawatt without
regulation without status of active
buyers without possibility to export
surf surplus in the network and they're
doing it.
>> So how do you doing such a project with
no regulation? Well, that's that's also
advantage for private sector because
there are no barriers, there are no
obstacles, there is no corruption, no
red tape. They do it for themselves.
>> They and they take risks. They take risk
>> and
>> are they rewards for the risk that they
taking so far?
>> So far, so far they operating. So far
they are building. So far they are
working. I don't know what's their
profit margin or how they are working.
That's that's outside of our
consideration but they are the leaders.
>>.
>> The first batteries will be installed by
private sector definitely. So the last
wind power 84 megawatt was private
sector foreign the first one foreign. So
in the pipeline you have 2 gawatt of
wind 80% private you have 4 gawatt of
solar.
>> Wow.
>> 85% private. So in that situation there
is a huge potential but the biggest
potential of Bosnia and the biggest
potential of those balcony is
flexibility of our hydropower
Croatia Bosnia specifically Montenegro
Serbia and northern Macedonia and
Albania. When you put that all together,
the flexibility of hydro which is badly
needed in central Europe is comparable
to Switzerland, Austria, Norway.
>> Wow. And in all Western Balkcans
are interconnected.
>> Oh connection is very good.
>> Okay. Between your six countries, right?
>> Very good because it was one country
>> and there was a good network. Now it's
six countries but network is the one
that 400 KV ring is there connections
with the neighboring Greece, Croatia,
Slovenia, Austria, Hungary
>> and we were making a research about
your work and you have papers from 2009
promoting the western balkcans
integration in Europe lecture market.
How how have you seen the evolution from
like 20 years ago kind of 15 years ago?
>> the integration of the market has
been promoted by the energy community.
That's the mission of energy community.
Market integration, integration of the
region in European market and it's
going on.
>> Okay.
>> Bosniona is the lagards. We still don't
have the exchange. You don't have power
exchange but it will it will be going
on. A problem is that it's not
systematic and strategic integration.
It's trade. You have surplus, you sell,
you have cheap electricity from German
solar, you buy, you increase a little
bit your financial. I'm talking about
power companies.
>> And it's shortterm.
>> It's not long term. Well,
>> it's not long-term. Long-term would be
regional coordination and then you will
have a little bit stronger player. How
you can do it? Maybe you can do it
through the market. Maybe you can do it
through the joint projects. But
definitely what we were we were
promoting for 15 years is
sit down guys and coordinate your asset.
>> Let's work together. then you are a
important player and then you can offer
something to the European Union and when
you offer something which they badly
need then maybe you can ask for usual
assistance that countries in EU are
getting to get out of the cold to get
cold phase out to go through the
whole process so it's win-win
unfortunately political division legacy
of the war conflicts unresolved
>> and the corruption and everything that
is when you say balkcans prevented that
maybe private sector will maybe private
sector will lead the role
>> but hydrop power plant are controlled by
state sector electric power company
>> and hydro are public and state
>> there's just a few small ones and small
hydro power plants which are private
>> but it's super interesting that all
western balkcans could provide
flexibility to central and western
>> they did provide flexibility 50 years
ago
We exchange flexibility of hydro with
Sweden with the Switzerland and Austria
50 years ago. It's complimentary.
Hydro in Switzerland and Austria is
complimentary to hydro in the balcon.
>>
because of the because of the rainfall
because of all the characteristic of
complimentarity.
>>. And if you combine solar, wind,
water and storage,
>> it's it's good.
>> Then you can get local consumption
covered with the cheap. And don't forget
this region is also very rich in
biomass.
>> Biomass also. Okay.
>> Above the average.
>> When we say biomass, wood chips and wood
>> forests.
>> Yeah.
>> Residues.
plantations.
>> Okay.
>>.
>> Everything that you can come even in
Serbia agricultural waste.
>> So bio
>> bio energy.
>> Okay. And ma now if you could just touch
upon what you're doing with retail what
kind of initiative that you're having to
>> Okay. We are doing two things. We are
doing thing in the region.
>>.
>>
we are a network of experts. You don't
have too many full-time employers.
You may say that in Boston is about 8 to
12
experts who are actively engaged.
But in the region, we also have a pool
of experts in every country three to
four. So what we try to do is
to have an honest look what is the
development of transition in the region.
The first document that we published was
so-called barometer of country readiness
for energy transition.
Unfortunately
the conclusion is
country not readiness for energy
transition. I'm talking about political
leaders and about parliaments about
governments about state utilities. So we
are trying to promote cooperation. We
are trying to figure out how European
Union should approach the region which
is not rigid approach that is currently
being realized through the energy
community secretariat. We are in contact
with energy communist secretar. We
exchange the ideas. We criticize them.
They sometimes listen. Sometimes they
don't listen. what are youing
them about?
>> Well, there two
for example the last the last dispute
was about regional energy energy energy
trading system regional ETS. When they
started the idea we said it's not going
to fly don't go that direction. So for
two years we argued with them and now
and finally they said well it's not
going to fly but we lost two years. We
also talked to the DG we talked to some
our partners in Berlin.
>> we are we are we are part of the
southeast
Europe
energy transition think tank network.
>> Where is that based?
>> It's a virtual it was established by
Agora Energy Vendor. It started very
ambitiously and then it will be slow to
slow down. It's countries of western
balkans plus Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria
and Greece.
>> Yeah.
>> So it was also southeast. So we
continue working in the western
balkcans. the network is not
developing as it was meant originally.
>> Also you said you guys can do think
tank and you're having several
pilot projects. If you could tell us
about that.
>> We are not the typical think tank
because it's
not possible to be in the balcon typical
think tank. So we had to evolve
>> in something which we call think and do
tank. So what we do not consulting
when we see that we have a good idea how
something could be implemented.
>> Of course you do mainly on the local
level because it's possible with our
government you do it. So we have been
implementing for the last four years
several projects on the local level
which we called decentralized energy
transition or citizens energy.
>>.
>> So working with small and mediumsiz
companies several projects with local
governments. The recent project is that
we worked with the open society
foundation
>> helping them to put donations on the
schools in Boston so-called sunny
schools project. Now we are probably
working with them further on along the
establishing something which they call a
green mayor's alliance in the western
balkcons. We also have experts in
networks. So we combine technical,
economic, legal and
social aspect. So we will focus next
couple years definitely on that we call
broader citizens energy and we have the
conference that we have organized three
years in a row on the subject
developing citizens energy
>> where where if
it's it's always in SVO in November it's
not conference like this one it's
working conference
>> it's usually
>> one thing do one thing
>> which people who are working it's about
60 70 people who are working in the area
from different stakeholders per per
initation without fees and for the three
years we have 85% people who are coming
every year.
>> Wow.
>> So that's
>> the same people
same people gathering from the region
>> putting that on the ground. Every year
you have some outcomes and then you
>> we discuss we define barriers we defined
proposals and then we try to lobby and
to coordinate effort. We also are
developing now a step further in this
do components education
>> resource center
we have a pilot project on
platform we call it plan for
citizens energy which is web based
>> whatever it will be so we're trying to
make impact and to push energy
transition from the bottom
>> because from the top it go it goes very
Okay, it's not easy, but
we are positive it's possible because we
started with 20 companies four years
ago, but we succeeded to get some
champions and some which are good and
the leader there is a about that two
companies there is a on balcon energy
news there is a report. So one of the
companies with our help went from the
energy audit to the level where they
have today fully implemented more than a
year energy monitoring system and
they're starting to use artificial
intelligence
>> to analyze
their data and to increase energy
efficiency of course implementing
measures heat pumps solar everything is
is included. They are really
our hope.
>>.
>> Because if you want to do something in
the balkcans, you have to have
laboratory.
>> You have to have
>> laboratory. People have to come
>> and you have to tell them go there
>> and see if they succeeded, you may
succeed.
>> So you see a the a big importance in
between academia and industry
collaboration. Well, it's a people are
prepared are from academia. They're also
specialist from industry. They worked
also in electrical companies. So now
they are involved. So it's it's quite
flexible. But you can say it's academia
and experts from industry who are
cooperating with our partners. We don't
call them clients with our partners. And
our partners are local governments,
local novel government organizations,
eventually citizens and above all above
all small and medium scale companies
>> and
just some more on the on the
challenges that you said what kind of
so for example what do you need from
from Brussels or from the EU union
because you said Bosnia and the
region is dependent on them. So
like if you can just list out some key
initiative the key things that you
need from them that could really benefit
the region. We need two things. We need
to put
apart from top down decarbonization
which is
>> markets, interconnections,
flexibility,
foreign direct investments, PPAs, the
whole conference
>> which we are participating now. We have
to tell them well in European Union you
also have bottom up
>> you also have citizens
>> and that's what we also want to do here.
M
>> so change the policy provide some
technical assistance you provide some
financial means for co-inancing those
projects it's not okay that you through
the western balcon framework provide 30%
of the investments for wind power park
to public companies and you don't
provide 30% for citizens I know it's
complicated for local governments but
support them so we are advocating for
changing the policy
>> so that even the private players can
take benefit of the go that 30%.
>> Yes.
>> Because anyway 85% you said is done by
the private player friend.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> And then then you do need some
technology transfer.
>>.
>> And that's our university have to be
better connected to the universities in
Europe.
>>. to reestablish connections that
were at a certain moment after the war
established and then they somehow face
down because we need continuous
connection and exposure to new
technologies and then we need ecosystem
for innovation
local players
triple helix quad triple helix
>> try to experiment because this
centralized energy transition is
experimenting it works something is
working here something is not working
and we are trying to do pilot project to
show it's possible
>> to showcase
>> actually one of your last research is
about decentralization with PV right
>> yes
>> so if you could tell us a bit about this
study or
>> we think that PV PV is a not just
producing electricity not just producing
electricity for yourself consumption
it's not commercial what we discuss is
the presumers energy communities etc. So
we think it's a trigger that you start
participating in energy transition
>> from PV you go to energy management you
go to energy efficiency you go to net
zero decarbonization
and then you
>> become player
>> that's how we see PV not just consumer
>> so we don't specifically like what's
happening in Montenegro where electrical
company putting PVs it's passive we more
would like to see people active from the
very beginning like with small and
mediumsiz companies in Bosnia which are
also developing suppliers, engineers,
finances. So then we identified
typical bottlenecks legal
certain financial but then we identify
very complicated bottleneck which is
grid distribution grid much much less
developed than the grids in the in
the European Union. And now we have set
up a group of people experts who are
supporting distribution system operators
or distribution network operators
because they are still not system to
develop software solutions to increase
hosting capacity to
introduce datadriven
planning and operation which is
basically the smart grid. So that's the
last project that we are doing. Of
course we are doing that with the
experts from university from company
together with them. So we'll see
>> we'll see what will be the result and
>> as you said the grid is not as advanced
as even advanced countries are
having problem with their grid. So we
can totally understand what what you
guys are facing. But so battery storage
becomes really even more important for
for Bosnia right
>> battery everywhere.
it's disruption technology battery plus
PV for these companies
battery in a distribution grid not just
for arbitrage but also for services
battery in the transmission grid which
of course big companies will do it
>> so we of course expected batteries to
play important role
>> so when you talk about citizens energy
energy communities is definitely PV plus
battery and energy management and demand
side management
>> and are there already some private
players who are deploying it
>> we expect that in the next year
>> in the next year
>> we expect the first batteries in Boston
this year
>> and you said about 10 megawatt right
that the first one that is getting
deployed
>> oh it will be much more it will be much
more
>> it will be much more
>> I think the first one which will be
employed will be on transmission level.
>> Yeah,
>> I expect it will be at least 100
megawatt hours.
>> It will be for secondary regulation.
>> And what is the
>> so big players will do big private
players.
>> So what is the autonomy that you are
envisioning with the this battery
storage system? 4 hours, 8 hours, 10.
The most economic solution for each
player. In some companies it will be two
hours in some companies it will be four
hours.
>> What they can
>> what what is the portfolio and that's
why we developed
opensource based energy monitoring
system.
>> Wow. Okay.
>> For that leader company flagship company
they've been collecting data for
one year.
>> Okay.
>> It's local so they understand what's
going on. It's a full-fledged energy
monitoring system which was built by our
experts on a open-source platform
using the cheap available hardware.
>>.
>> So it's not Schneider, it's not ABB,
it's not Semens because they cannot
afford that.
>> So we'll see.
>> Wow.
>> Every every load profile will require
different battery sizes. But the most
important part is control
>> software
>> software.
>> So major it been it's getting very
insightful but we understand that we
also have an event that you have to
attend but some closing arguments why
your your initiative is very
important to the region. What what do
you expect from from
people like us who are based out of
Vienna? what kind of message that you
would like to give to Vienna to I
mean also here what what are you talking
to people what exactly key message that
you have come here to tell
>> look you start with the think tank in
the Balkans first two years people don't
know what what what you are think tank
what we are not in America we are not in
Europe even think tanks are consultancy
foundations etc So after the initial
stage when people start understanding
what we want to do, we are now in the
next stage and it's a regional
networking
in the western balkcans and we are
looking for the partners who want to
help us to network with us.
>> We are
>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We are looking for the
partners like motivated partners. We did
have cooperation with the big with the
big consultancies and with the built-in
things like Aragorian and like Equities
like partners in Croatia, Romania,
Bulgaria and Greece. But what we are now
basically trying to do is focus on
bottom up approach
80% 20% regional issues
and try to develop not projects but
process. So one new project that we are
now trying to develop as a process.
>>.
>> Well it's called I hope we will develop
it.
>> It's a challenge. It's called the
sustainable energy transition innovation
center and we are hoping to develop that
in Boston
in four cities together with
universities together with the Dutch
partner and together with the Dutch
center of Alex lens and Dutch technical
universities. We can have similar
project with Austria. we have so
many students and colleagues and
engineers in Austria. And how did you
start with the with a Dutch partnership?
>> They found us.
>> They found you.
>> They found us and they said we would do
we'd like to do something with you. We
proposed.
>> Okay.
>> They wanted it's a little bit more
broader
issue. They wanted something which
will
kickstart economic development. And we
said well we are doing this if you want
we can do it. Now we in a phase of
developing concepts agreements we decide
soon memorandum of understanding then we
will develop visibility study but we
know what we can get from four
universities in that what we
can get from experience of the energy
communities
>> amazing what you can get from Holland
even though it's not fully copy paste
you have to modify
>> adapt it
>> so that's that's a new challenge that's
a new challenge and Our biggest
challenge is now how to get young people
in all this..
>> How to get not only professors from
university but students
>> not only students from Bosnia but Bosian
students or engineers from Germany,
Austria where there are plenty
>> half of my students
where I was a mentor supervisor on their
final degrees are now doing PhDs in
Europe in Manchester in Hamburg in
Munich in Vienna. So
to get young people involved you need
young people on both sides. So those are
challenging
>> generational collaboration also.
>> Well we are not going we are we are we
are first generation my generation is
the first one who really experienced
climate change.
>> Wow.
>> And we are the last one who can really
start something but we will not
implement that.
>> It will be your generation who will
implement that completely. Our our think
tank is to open the door on conservative
policy makers
>> because we have some leverage.
>> Wow. You are a real bridge between
academia, policy makers and
>> and also between Western Balcon and
>> yeah Europe
>> that's that's that's where we really
where we really try to now when people
know what we are when we have some track
record when some references okay now now
should be growth phase pilot phase
incubation phase
>> is probably over and I was a president
now I'm not more in a president there is
a new president younger one
>> that's good
>> we try to put together energy
engineering legal financial economic
social aspects all all necessary aspects
of such a complex process which we on
today's panel called energy revolution
>> energy revolution wow it has been a
pleasure mistra and I think we are going
to see each other again.
>> Be in touch. Be in touch. I will connect
with the younger people
>> from from our network
>> which will be more natural for you
>> and if there is any possibility just
exchange cooperate
>> who knows there might be some.
>> Do about Mira Galiba
>> Galib?
>> No.
>> No. Okay. Couple of things about him and
okay our pleasure.
>> It was my pleasure also.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you and thank you community
for see the interview and see you in the
next episode. Bye-bye.
>> So you are from from India.
>> India. Good. I had very

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